For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
October 9, 2004
Remarks by President Bush and Senator Kerry in Second 2004 Presidential Debate
Washington University
St. Louis, Missouri
8:02 P.M. CDT
MODERATOR: Good evening, from the Field House at Washington
University in St. Louis. I'm Charles Gibson of ABC News and Good
Morning America. I welcome you to the second of the 2004 presidential
debates between George W. Bush, the Republican nominee, and Senator
John Kerry, the Democratic nominee. The debates are sponsored by the
Commission on Presidential Debates.
Tonight's format is going to be a bit different. We have assembled
a town hall meeting. We're in the "show me" state, as everyone knows
Missouri to be, so Missouri residents will ask the questions. These
140 citizens were identified by the Gallup Organization as not yet
committed in this election. Now, earlier today each audience member
gave me two questions on cards like this -- one they'd like to ask of
the President; the other they'd like to ask the Senator. I have
selected the questions to be asked and the order. No one has seen the
final list of questions but me. Certainly not the candidates. No
audience member knows if he or she will be called upon. Audience
microphones will be turned off after a question is asked.
Audience members will address their question to a specific
candidate. He'll have two minutes to answer. The other candidate will
have a minute-and-a-half for rebuttal. And I have the option of
extending discussion for one minute, to be divided equally between the
two men. All subjects are open for discussion. And you probably know
the light system by now -- green light at 30 seconds, yellow at 15, red
at five, and flashing red means you're done. Those are the candidates'
rules. I will hold the candidates to the time limits forcefully, but
politely -- I hope.
And now, please join me in welcoming with great respect, President
Bush and Senator Kerry. (Applause.)
Gentlemen, to the business at hand. The first question is for
Senator Kerry, and it will come from Cheryl Otis, who is right behind
me.
Q Senator Kerry, after talking to several co-workers and family
and friends, I asked the ones who said they were not voting for you,
why. They said that you were too wishy-washy. Do you have a reply for
them?
SENATOR KERRY: Yes, I certainly do. (Laughter.) But let me just
first, Cheryl, if you will, I want to thank Charlie for moderating; I
want to thank Washington University for hosting us here this evening.
Mr. President, it's good to be with you again this evening, sir.
Cheryl, the President didn't find weapons of mass destruction in
Iraq, so he's really turned his campaign into a weapon of mass
deception. And the result is that you've been bombarded with
advertisements suggesting that I've changed a position on this or that
or the other. Now, the three things they try to say I've changed
position on are the Patriot Act -- I haven't; I support it. I just
don't like the way John Ashcroft has applied it. And we're going to
change a few things. The Chairman of the Republican Party thinks we
ought to change a few things.
No Child Left Behind Act -- I voted for it; I support it; I support
the goals. But the President has under-funded it by $28 billion.
Right here in St. Louis, you've laid off 350 teachers. You're 150 --
excuse me, I think it's a little more -- about $100 million shy of what
you ought to be under the No Child Left Behind Act to help your
education system here. So I complain about that. I've argued that we
should fully fund it. The President says I've changed my mind. I
haven't changed my mind. I'm going to fully fund it.
So these are the differences. Now, the President has presided over
the economy where we've lost 1.6 million jobs -- the first President in
72 years to lose jobs. I have a plan to put people back to work.
That's not wishy-washy. I'm going to close the loopholes that actually
encourage companies to go overseas. The President wants to keep them
open. I think I'm right; I think he's wrong.
I'm going to give you a tax cut. The President gave -- the top one
percent of income earners in America got $89 billion last year; more
than the 80 percent of people who earn $100,000 or less all put
together. I think that's wrong. That's not wishy-washy, and that's
what I'm fighting for -- you.
MODERATOR: Mr. President, a minute-and-a-half.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Charlie, thank you, and thank our panelists.
Senator, thank you. I can -- and thanks, Washington U., as well.
I can see why people at your workplace think he changes positions a
lot, because he does. He said he voted for the $87 billion and -- or
voted against it right before he voted for it. And that sends a
confusing signal to people. He said he thought Saddam Hussein was a
grave threat, and now said it was a mistake to remove Saddam Hussein
from power. No, I can see why people think that he changes position
quite often, because he does.
You know, for a while, he was a strong supporter of getting rid of
Saddam Hussein. He saw the wisdom -- until the Democratic primary came
along, and Howard Dean, the anti-war candidate, began to gain on him.
And he changed positions. I don't see how you can lead this country in
a time of war, in a time of uncertainty, if you change your mind
because of politics.
He just brought up the tax cut. You remember, we increased that
child credit by $1000; reduced the marriage penalty; created a
10-percent tax bracket for the lower income Americans -- that, right at
the middle class. He voted against it. And yet he tells you he's for
a middle-class tax cut. It's -- you've got to be consistent when
you're the President. There's a lot of pressures, and you've got to be
firm and consistent.
MODERATOR: Mr. President, I would follow up, but we have a series
of questions on Iraq, and so I will turn to the next questioner. The
question for President Bush and the questioner is Robin Dahl
(phonetic).
Q Mr. President, yesterday in a statement you admitted that
Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, but justified the
invasion by stating -- I quote -- "he retained the knowledge, the
materials, the means, and the intent to produce weapons of mass
destruction, and could have passed this knowledge to our terrorist
enemies." Do you sincerely believe this to be a reasonable
justification for invasion when this statement applies to so many other
countries, including North Korea?
PRESIDENT BUSH: Each situation is different, Robin. And
obviously, we hope that diplomacy works before you ever use force. The
hardest decision a President makes is ever to use force.
After 9/11, we had to look at the world differently. After 9/11,
we had to recognize that when we saw a threat, we must take it
seriously before it comes to hurt us. In the old days, we'd see a
threat, and we could deal with it if we felt like it, or not. But 9/11
changed it all.
I vowed to our countrymen that I would do everything I could to
protect the American people. That's why we're bringing al Qaeda to
justice. Seventy-five percent of them have been brought to justice.
That's why I said to Afghanistan, if you harbor a terrorist, you're
just as guilty as the terrorist. And the Taliban is no longer in
power, and al Qaeda no longer has a place to plan.
And I saw a unique threat in Saddam Hussein, as did my opponent,
because we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. And the unique
threat was that he could give weapons of mass destruction to an
organization like al Qaeda, and the harm they inflicted on us with
airplanes would be multiplied greatly by weapons of mass destruction.
And that was a serious, serious threat.
So I tried diplomacy. I went to the United Nations. But as we
learned in the same report I quoted, Saddam Hussein was gaming the
oil-for-food program to get rid of sanctions. He was trying to get rid
of sanctions for a reason. He wanted to restart his weapons programs.
We all thought there was weapons there, Robin. My opponent thought
there was weapons there. That's why he called him a grave threat. I
wasn't happy when we found out there wasn't weapons, and we've got an
intelligence group together to figure out why. But Saddam Hussein was
a unique threat, and the world is better off without him in power. And
my opponent's plans lead me to conclude that Saddam Hussein would still
be in power and the world would be more dangerous.
Thank you, sir.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, a minute-and-a-half.
SENATOR KERRY: Robin, I'm going to answer your question. I'm also
going to talk -- respond to what you asked, Cheryl, at the same time.
The world is more dangerous today. The world is more dangerous
today because the President didn't make the right judgments. Now, the
President wishes that I had changed my mind. He wants you to believe
that, because he can't come here and tell you that he's created new
jobs for America; he's lost jobs. He can't come here and tell you that
he's created health care for Americans because -- what, we've got 5
million Americans who have lost their health care, 96,000 of them right
here in Missouri. He can't come here and tell you that he's left no
child behind because he didn't fund No Child Left Behind.
So what does he do? He's trying to attack me. He wants you to
believe that I can't be President. And he's trying to make you believe
it because he wants you to think I change my mind.
Well, let me tell you straight up, I've never changed my mind about
Iraq. I do believe Saddam Hussein was a threat. I always believed he
was a threat -- believed it in 1998 when Clinton was President. I
wanted to give Clinton the power to use force if necessary. But I
would have used that force wisely, I would have used that authority
wisely, not rushed to war without a plan to win the peace. I would
have brought our allies to our side. I would have fought to make
certain our troops had everybody possible to help them win the
mission.
This President rushed to war, pushed our allies aside, and Iran now
is more dangerous, and so is North Korea with nuclear weapons. He took
his eye off the ball, off of Osama bin Laden.
MODERATOR: Mr. President, I do want to follow up on this one,
because there were several questions from the audience along this
line.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Are we going to have a rebuttal thing back and
forth?
MODERATOR: I was going to have you do it with the rebuttal. But
you go ahead. (Laughter.) You're up.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Remember the last debate, my opponent said that
America must pass a global test before we use force to protect
ourselves. That's the kind of mind-set that says sanctions were
working. That's the kind of mind-set that says let's keep it at the
United Nations and hope things go well.
Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of
mass destruction to terrorist enemies. Sanctions were not working; the
United Nations was not effective at removing Saddam Hussein.
MODERATOR: Senator?
SENATOR KERRY: The goal of the sanctions was not to remove Saddam
Hussein; it was to remove the weapons of mass destruction. And, Mr.
President, just yesterday, the Duelfer report told you and the whole
world they worked. He didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Mr.
President. That was the objective. And if we had used smart
diplomacy, we could have saved $200 billion and an invasion of Iraq,
and right now Osama bin Laden might be in jail, or dead. That's the
war against terror.
MODERATOR: We're going to have another question now, on the
subject of Iraq. And I'm just going to turn to Anthony Baldi
(phonetic) with a question for Senator Kerry.
Mr. Baldi.
Q Senator Kerry, the U.S. is preparing a new Iraq government,
and we'll proceed to withdraw U.S. troops. Would you proceed with the
same plans as President Bush?
SENATOR KERRY: Anthony, I would not. I have laid out a different
plan because the President's plan is not working. You see that every
night on television. There's chaos in Iraq. King Abdullah of Jordan
said just yesterday, or the day before, you can't hold elections in
Iraq with the chaos that's going on today. Senator Richard Lugar, the
Republican Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said that the
handling of the reconstruction aid in Iraq by this administration has
been "incompetent." Those are the Republican Chairman's words. Senator
Hagel of Nebraska said that the handling of Iraq is "beyond pitiful,
beyond embarrassing, it's in the zone of dangerous." Those are the
words of two Republicans, respected, both on the Foreign Relations
Committee.
Now, I have to tell you, I would do something different. I would
reach out to our allies in a way that this President hasn't. He pushed
them away, time and again. Pushed them away at the U.N., pushed them
away individually. Two weeks ago, there was a meeting of the North
Atlantic Council, which is the political arm of NATO. They discussed
the possibility of a small training unit, or having a total takeover of
the training in Iraq. Did our administration push for the total
training of Iraq? No. Were they silent? Yes. Was there an effort to
bring all the allies together around that? No. Because they've always
wanted this to be an American effort. You know, they even had the
Defense Department issue a memorandum saying, don't bother applying for
assistance or for being part of the reconstruction if you weren't part
of our original coalition.
Now, that's not a good way to build support and reduce the risk for
our troops and make America safer. I'm going to get the training done
for our troops, I'm going to get the training of Iraqis done faster,
and I'm going to get our allies back to the table.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Two days ago in the Oval Office, I met with the
Finance Minister from Iraq. He came to see me. And he talked about
how optimistic he was and the country was about heading toward
elections. Think about it. They're going from tyranny to elections.
He talked about the reconstruction efforts that are beginning to take
hold. He talked about the fact that Iraqis love to be free. He said
he was optimistic when he came here. Then he turned on the TV and
listened to the political rhetoric and all of the sudden he was
pessimistic.
This is a guy who, along with others, has taken great risk for
freedom. And we need to stand with him. My opponent says he has a
plan. Sounds familiar because it's called the Bush plan. We're going
to train troops -- and we are. We'll have 125,000 trained by the end
of December. We're spending about $7 billion.
He talks about a grand idea -- let's have a summit. We're going to
solve the problem in Iraq by holding a summit. And what is he going to
say to those people that show up to the summit? Join me in the wrong
war at the wrong time at the wrong place? Risk your troops in a war
you've called a mistake? Nobody is going to follow somebody who
doesn't believe we can succeed, and somebody who says the war where we
are is a mistake. I know how these people think. I meet with them all
the time. I talk to Tony Blair all the time. I talk to Silvio
Berlusconi -- they're not going to follow an American President who
says, follow me into a mistake. Our plan is working. We're going to
make elections and Iraq is going to be free, and America will be better
off for it.
MODERATOR: Do you want to follow up, Senator?
SENATOR KERRY: Yes, sir, please.
Ladies and gentlemen, the right war was Osama bin Laden and
Afghanistan. That was the right place, and the right time was Tora
Bora, when we had him cornered in the mountains. Now, everyone in the
world knows that there were no weapons of mass destruction. That was
the reason Congress gave him the authority to use force -- not after
excuse to get rid of the regime.
Now we have to succeed. I've always said that. I have been
consistent. Yes, we have to succeed, and I have a better plan to help
us do it.
PRESIDENT BUSH: First of all, we didn't find out he didn't have
weapons until we got there. And my opponent thought he had weapons and
told everybody he thought he had weapons. And secondly, it's a
fundamental misunderstanding to say that the war on terror is only
Osama bin Laden. The war on terror is to make sure that these
terrorist organizations do not end up with weapons of mass
destruction. That's what the war on terror is about.
Of course, we're going to find Osama bin Laden. We've already got
75 percent of his people, and we're on the hunt for him. But this is a
global conflict that requires firm resolve.
MODERATOR: The next question is for President Bush and it comes
from Nicki Washington (phonetic).
Q Thank you. Mr. President, my mother and sister traveled
abroad this summer and, when they got back, they talked to us about how
shocked they were at the intensity of aggravation that other countries
had with how we handled the Iraq situation. Diplomacy is, obviously,
something that we have to really work on. What is your plan to repair
relations with other countries, given the current situation?
PRESIDENT BUSH: No, I appreciate that. Listen, I -- we've got a
great country. I love our values. And I recognize I've made some
decisions that have caused people to not understand the great values of
our country. I remember when Ronald Reagan was the President. He
stood on principle. Some might have called that stubborn. He stood on
principle, standing up to the Soviet Union. And we won that conflict.
Yet at the same time, he was very -- we were very unpopular in Europe
because of decisions he made.
I recognize that taking Saddam Hussein out was unpopular. But I
made the decision because I thought it was in the right interests of
our security. You know, I made some decisions on Israel; that's
unpopular. I wouldn't deal with Arafat because I felt like he had let
the former President down, and I don't think he's the kind of person
that can lead toward a Palestinian state. And people in Europe didn't
like that decision. And that was unpopular, but it was the right thing
to do. I believe Palestinians ought to have a state, but I know they
need leadership that's committed to democracy and freedom; leadership
that will be willing to reject terrorism.
I made a decision not to join the International Criminal Court in
The Hague, which is where our troops could be brought to -- brought in
front of a judge, an unaccounted judge. I don't think we ought to join
that. That was unpopular. And so what I'm telling you is, is that
sometimes in this world you make unpopular decisions because you think
they're right.
We'll continue to reach out. Listen, there's 30 nations involved
in Iraq, some 40 nations involved in Afghanistan. People love
America. Sometimes they don't like the decisions made by America, but
I don't think you want a President who tries to become popular and does
the wrong thing. You don't want to join the International Criminal
Court just because it's popular in certain capitals in Europe.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, a minute-and-a-half.
SENATOR KERRY: Nicki, that's a question that's been raised by a
lot of people around the country. Let me address it, but also talk
about the weapons the President just talked about, because every part
of the President's answer just now promises you more of the same over
the next four years.
The President stood right here in this hall four years ago, and he
was asked a question by somebody just like you, under what
circumstances would you send people to war. And his answer was, with a
viable exit strategy and only with enough forces to get the job done.
He didn't do that; he broke that promise. We didn't have enough
forces. General Shinseki, the Army Chief of Staff, told him he was
going to need several hundred thousand. And guess what, they retired
General Shinseki for telling him that. This President hasn't
listened.
I went to meet with the members of the Security Council in the week
before we voted. I went to New York. I talked to all of them to find
out how serious they were about really holding Saddam Hussein
accountable. I came away convinced that if we worked at it, if we were
ready to work at letting Hans Blix do his job and thoroughly go through
the inspections, that if push came to shove, they'd be there with us.
But the President just arbitrarily brought the hammer down and said,
nope, sorry, time for diplomacy is over, we're going. He rushed to war
without a plan to win the peace. Ladies and gentlemen, he gave you a
speech and told you he'd plan carefully, take every precaution, take
our allies with us. He didn't. He broke his word.
MODERATOR: Mr. President.
PRESIDENT BUSH: I remember sitting in the White House, looking at
those generals, saying, do you have what you need in this war? Do you
have what it takes? I remember going down in the basement of the White
House the day we committed our troops -- as last resort -- looking
at Tommy Franks and the generals on the ground, asking them, do we have
the right plan with the right troop level? And they looked me in the
eye and said, yes, sir, Mr. President. Of course, I listened to our
generals. That's what a President does. A President sets the strategy
and relies upon good military people to execute that strategy.
MODERATOR: Senator.
SENATOR KERRY: You rely on good military people to execute the
military component of the strategy, but winning the peace is larger
than just the military component. General Shinseki had the wisdom to
say you're going to need several hundred thousand troops to win the
peace. The military's job is to win the war. The President's job is
to win the peace. The President did not do what was necessary --
didn't bring in enough nations, didn't deliver the help, didn't close
off the borders, didn't even guard the ammo dumps. And now our kids
are being killed with ammos right out of that dump.
MODERATOR: The next question is for Senator Kerry, and it comes
from over here, from Randy Jacobs (phonetic). You'll need a
microphone.
SENATOR KERRY: Is it Randy?
Q Yes, Randy. Iran sponsors terrorism and has missiles capable
of hitting Israel and southern Europe. Iran will have nuclear weapons
in two to three years' time. In the event that U.N. sanctions don't
stop this threat, what will you do as President?
SENATOR KERRY: I don't think you can just rely on U.N. sanctions,
Randy, but you're absolutely correct, it is a threat -- it's a huge
threat. And what's interesting is it's a threat that has grown while
the President has been preoccupied with Iraq where there wasn't a
threat. If he'd let the inspectors do their job and go on, we wouldn't
have ten times the numbers of forces in Iraq that we have in
Afghanistan chasing Osama bin Laden.
Meanwhile, while Iran is moving towards nuclear weapons, some 37
tons of what they call yellow cake -- the stuff they use to make
enriched uranium -- while they're doing that, North Korea has moved
from one bomb, maybe -- maybe -- to four to seven bombs.
For two years the President didn't even engage with North Korea --
did nothing at all, while it was growing more dangerous, despite the
warnings of people like former Secretary of Defense William Perry, who
negotiated getting television cameras and inspectors into that
reactor. We were safer before President Bush came to office. Now,
they have the bombs and we're less safe.
So what do we do? We've got to join with the British and the
French, with the Germans who've been involved in their initiative --
we've got to lead the world now to crack down on proliferation as a
whole. But the President has been slow to do that even in Russia. At
his pace, it's going to take 13 years to reduce and get a hold of all
the loose nuclear material in the former Soviet Union. I proposed a
plan that can capture it and contain it and clean it within four
years.
And the President is moving toward the creation of our own
bunker-busting, nuclear weapon. It's very hard to get other countries
to give up their weapons when you're busy developing a new one. I'm
going to lead the world in the greatest counter-proliferation effort.
And if we have to get tough with Iran, believe me, we will get tough.
MODERATOR: Mr. President, a minute-and-a-half.
PRESIDENT BUSH: That answer almost made me want to scowl.
(Laughter.) He keeps talking about letting the inspectors do their job
-- it's naive and dangerous to say that. That's what the Duelfer
report showed. He was deceiving the inspectors.
Secondly, of course, we've been involved with Iran. I fully
understand the threat. And that's why we're doing what he suggested we
do -- get the Brits, the Germans and the French to go make it very
clear to the Iranians that if they expect to be a party to the world,
to give up their nuclear ambitions. We've been doing that.
Let me talk about North Korea. It is naive and dangerous to take a
policy that he suggested the other day -- which is to have bilateral
relations with North Korea. Remember, he is the person who is accusing
me of not acting multilaterally. He now wants to take the six-party
talks we have -- China, North Korea, South Korea, Russia, Japan and the
United States -- and undermine them by having bilateral talks. That's
what President Clinton did. He had bilateral talks with the North
Korean, and guess what happened? He didn't honor the agreement. He
was enriching uranium. That is a bad policy.
Of course, we're paying attention to these. That's a great
question about Iran. That's why, in my speech to the Congress, I said
there is an axis of evil, Iran, Iraq and North Korea, and we're paying
attention to it, and we're making progress.
MODERATOR: We're going to move on, Mr. President, with a question
for you. And it comes from Daniel Farley (phonetic).
Mr. Farley?
Q Mr. President, since we continue to police the world, how do
you intend to maintain a military presence without re-instituting a
draft?
PRESIDENT BUSH: Yes, great question. Thanks.
I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a
draft. We're not going to have a draft, period. The all-volunteer
Army works. It works particularly when we pay our troops well. It
works when we make sure they've got housing, like we have done in the
last military budgets. An all-volunteer Army is best suited to fight
the new wars of the 21st century, which is to be specialized and to
find these people as they hide around the world. We don't need mass
armies anymore.
One of the things we've done is we've taken the -- we're beginning
to transform our military. And by that I mean we're moving troops out
of Korea and replacing them with more effective weapons. We don't need
as much manpower on the Korean Peninsula to keep a deterrent.
In Europe, we have massed troops as if the Soviet Union existed and
was going to invade into Europe. But those days are over with. And so
we're moving troops out of Europe, and replacing it with more effective
equipment.
So the answer to your question is, we're withdrawing -- not from
the world; we're drawing manpower, so they can be stationed here in
America, so there's less rotation, so life is easier on their families
and, therefore, more likely to be -- we'll be more likely to keep
people in the all-volunteer Army.
One of the most important things we're doing in this administration
is transformation. There's some really interesting technologies. For
example, we're flying unmanned vehicles that can send real-time
messages back to stations in the United States. That saves manpower
and it saves equipment. It also means that we can target things easier
and move more quickly, which means we need to be lighter and quicker
and more facile and highly trained.
Forget all this talk about a draft. We're not going to have a
draft so long as I'm the President.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, minute-and-a-half.
SENATOR KERRY: Daniel, I don't support a draft. But let me tell
you where the President's policies have put us. The President -- and
this is one of the reasons why I'm very proud in this race to have the
support of General John Shalikashvili, former Chairman of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff; Admiral William Crowe, former Chairman of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff; General Tony McPeak, who ran the air war for the
President's father and did a brilliant job -- supporting me; General
Wes Clark, who won the war in Kosovo -- supporting me -- because they
all -- and General Baca, who was the head National Guard -- supporting
me. Why? Because they understand that our military is over-extended
under this President.
Our Guard and Reserves have been turned into almost active duty.
You've got people doing three rotations. You've got stop-loss policies
so people can't get out when they were supposed to. You've got a
backdoor draft right now. And a lot of our military are underpaid.
These are families that get hurt. It hurts the middle class, it hurts
communities, because these are our first responders, and they're called
up and they're over there, not over here.
Now, I'm going to add 40,000 active duty forces to the military.
And I'm going to make people feel good about being safe in our
military, and not over-extended because I'm going to run a foreign
policy that actually does what President Reagan did and President
Eisenhower did, and others. We're going to build alliances; we're not
going to go unilaterally, we're not going to go alone like this
President did.
MODERATOR: Mr. President, let's extend for a minute.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Let me just -- I've got to answer this.
MODERATOR: Exactly. And with Reservists being held on duty and --
PRESIDENT BUSH: Let me just answer what he just said about going
alone.
MODERATOR: I wanted to get into the issue of the backdoor draft.
THE PRESIDENT: You tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Tony
Blair we're going on. Tell Silvio Berlusconi we're going alone. Tell
Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland we're going alone. We've got 30
countries there. It denigrates an alliance to say we're going alone,
to discount their sacrifices. You cannot lead an alliance if you say,
you're going alone. And people listen. They're sacrificing with us.
MODERATOR: Senator.
SENATOR KERRY: Mr. President, countries are leaving the coalition,
not joining. Eight countries have left it. If Missouri, just given
the number of people from Missouri who are in the military over there
today, were a country, it would be the third largest country in the
coalition, behind Great Britain and the United States. That's not a
grand coalition. Ninety percent of the casualties are American.
Ninety percent of the costs are coming out of your pockets. I could do
a better job. My plan does a better job, and that's why I'll be a
better Commander-in-Chief.
MODERATOR: The next question, Senator Kerry, is for you, and it
comes from Ann Bronsing (phonetic), who I believe is over in this
area.
Q Senator Kerry, we have been fortunate that there have been no
further terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11. Why do you
think this is? And if elected, what will you do to assure our safety?
SENATOR KERRY: Thank you very much, Ann. I've asked in my
security briefings why that is, and I can't go into all the answers, et
cetera, but let me say this to you. This President and his
administration have told you and all of us it's not a question of when,
it's a question of -- excuse me, not a question of if, it's a question
of when. We've been told that. The when I can't tell you. Between
the World Trade Center bombing in -- what was it -- 1993 or so -- and
the next time was five years, seven years. These people wait, they'll
plan. They plot.
I agree with the President that we have to go after them and get
them wherever they are. I just think I can do that far more
effectively because the most important weapon in doing that is
intelligence. You've got to have the best intelligence in the world.
And in order to have the best intelligence in the world, to know who
the terrorists are and where they are and what they're plotting, you've
got to have the best cooperation you've ever had in the world.
Now, to go back to your question, Nicki -- we're not getting the
best cooperation in the world today. We've got a whole bunch of
countries that pay a price for dealing with the United States of
America now. I'm going to change that. And I'm going to put in place
a better homeland security effort. Look, it -- 95 percent of our
containers coming into this country are not inspected today. When you
get on an airplane, your cart -- your bag is -- is X-rayed, but the
cargo hold isn't X-rayed. Do you feel safer?
This President, in the last debate, said that that would be a big
tax gap if we did that. Ladies and gentlemen, it's his tax plan. He
chose a tax cut for the wealthiest Americans over getting that
equipment out into the homeland as fast as possible. We have bridges
and tunnels that aren't being secured; chemical plants, nuclear plants
that aren't secured; hospitals that are overcrowded in their emergency
rooms. If we had a disaster today, could they handle it?
This President chose a tax cut over homeland security. Wrong
choice.
MODERATE: Mr. President.
PRESIDENT BUSH: That's an odd thing to say since we've tripled the
homeland security budget from $10 billion to $30 billion. Listen,
we'll do everything we can to protect the homeland. My opponent is
right, we need good intelligence. It's also a curious thing for him to
say, since right after 1993, he voted to cut the intelligence budget by
$7.5 billion.
The best way to defend America in this world we live in is to stay
on the offense. We've got to be right 100 percent of the time here at
home, and they've got to be right once. And that's the -- that's the
reality. And there's a lot of good people working hard. We're doing
the best we possibly can to share information. That's why the Patriot
Act was important. The Patriot Act is vital, by the way. It's a tool
that law enforcement now uses to be able to talk between each other.
My opponent says he hasn't changed his positions on it -- no, but he's
for weakening it.
I don't think my opponent has got the right view about the world to
make us safe, I really don't. First of all, I don't think he can
succeed in Iraq. And if Iraq were to fail, it would be a haven for
terrorists, and there would be money, and the world would be much more
dangerous. I don't see how you can win in Iraq if you don't believe we
should be there in the first place. I don't see how you can lead
troops if you say it's the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong
time. I don't see how the Iraqis are going to have confidence in the
American President if all they hear is that it was a mistake to be
there in the first place.
This war is a long, long war, and it requires steadfast
determination, and it requires a complete understanding that we not
only chase down al Qaeda, but we disrupt terrorists safe havens, as
well as people who could provide the terrorists with support.
MODERATOR: I want to extend for a minute, Senator, and I'm curious
about something you said. You said it's not when, but if. You think
it's inevitable? Because the sense of security is a very basic thing
with everybody in this country, worried about their kids.
SENATOR KERRY: Well, the President and his experts have told
America that it's not a question of if, it's a question of when. And I
accept what the President has said. These terrorists are serious,
they're deadly, and they know nothing except trying to kill. I
understand that. That's why I will never stop at anything to hunt down
and kill the terrorists. But you heard the President just say to you
that we've added money. Folks, the test is not if you've added money.
The test is have you done everything possible to make America secure.
He chose a tax cut for wealthy Americans over the things that I listed
to you.
MODERATOR: Mr. President.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, we'll talk about the tax cut for middle
class here in a minute. But -- yes, I'm worried. I'm worried. I'm
worried about our country. And all I can tell you is every day I know
that there's people working overtime, doing the very best they can.
And the reason I'm worried is because there's a vicious enemy that has
an ideology of hate. And the way to defeat them long-term, by the way,
is to spread freedom. Liberty can change habits, and that's what's
happening in Afghanistan and Iraq.
MODERATOR: Mr. President, we're going to turn to questions now on
domestic policy and we're going to start with health issues. And the
first question is for President Bush, and it's from John Horseman
(phonetic).
Q Mr. President, why did you block the reimportation of safer
and inexpensive drugs from Canada, which would have cut 40-60 percent
off of the cost?
PRESIDENT BUSH: I haven't yet. I just want to make sure they're
safe. When a drug comes in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures
you and doesn't kill you. And that's why the FDA, and that's why the
Surgeon General are looking very carefully to make sure it can be done
in a safe way. I've got an obligation to make sure our government does
everything we can to protect you. And one -- my worry is that it looks
like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world. We just got
to make sure before somebody thinks they're buying a product, that it
works. And that's why we're doing what we're doing.
Now, it may very well be, here in December you hear me say, I think
there's a safe way to do it. The other way is to make sure drugs are
cheaper. One is to speed up generic drugs to the marketplace --
quicker. Pharmaceuticals were using loopholes to keep brand drugs in
place and generics are much less expensive than brand drugs -- and
we're doing just that. Another is to get our seniors to sign up for
these drug discount cards. And they're working.
Wanda Blackmore, I met here from Missouri -- the first time she
bought drugs with her drug discount card she paid $1.14, I think it
was, for about $10 worth of drugs. These cards make sense. And, you
know, in 2006, seniors are going to get prescription drug coverage for
the first time in Medicare. Because I went to Washington to fix
problems. Medicare -- the issue of Medicare used to be called
"Medi-scare." People didn't want to touch it for fear of getting hurt
politically. I wanted to get something done. I think our seniors
deserve a modern medical system. And in 2006, our seniors will get
prescription drug coverage.
Thank you for asking.
MODERATE: Senator, a minute-and-a-half.
SENATOR KERRY: John, you heard the President just say that he
thought he might try to be for it. Four years ago, right here in this
forum, he was asked the same question -- can't people be able to import
drugs from Canada. Do you know what he said? I think that makes sense
-- I think that's a good idea. Four years ago.
Now, the President said, I'm not blocking that. Ladies and
gentlemen, the President just didn't level with you -- right now,
again. He did block it, because we passed it in the United States
Senate. We sent it over to the House that you could import drugs. We
took care of the safety issues. We're not talking about third-world
drugs. We're talking about drugs made right here in the United States
of America that have American brand names on them, in American bottles,
and we're asking they be -- allow you to get them.
The President blocked it. The President also took Medicare, which
belongs to you, and he could have lowered the cost of Medicare and
lowered your taxes and lowered the cost to seniors. You know what he
did? He made it illegal, illegal for Medicare to do what the VA does,
which is bulk purchase drugs so that you could lower the price and get
them out to you lower. He put $139 billion of windfall profit into the
pockets of the drug companies right out of your pockets.
That's the difference between us. The President sides with the
power companies, the oil companies, the drug companies, and I'm
fighting to let you get those drugs from Canada, and I'm fighting to
let Medicare survive. I'm fighting for the middle class. That's the
difference.
MODERATOR: Mr. President.
PRESIDENT BUSH: If they're safe, they're coming. I want to remind
you that it wasn't just my administration that made the decision on
safety. President Clinton did the same thing, because we have an
obligation to protect you.
Now, he talks about Medicare. He's been in the United States
Senate 20 years. Show me one accomplishment toward Medicare that he
accomplished. I've been in Washington, D.C. three-and-a-half years,
and led the Congress to reform Medicare so our seniors have got a
modern health care system. That's what leadership is all about.
SENATOR KERRY: Actually, Mr. President, in 1997, we fixed Medicare
and I was one of the people involved in it. We not only fixed Medicare
and took it way out into the future, we did something that you don't
know how to do. We balanced the budget. And we paid down the debt of
our nation for two years in a row and we created 23 million new jobs at
the same time. And it's the President's fiscal policies that have
driven up the biggest deficits in American history. He's added more
debt to the debt of the United States in four years than all the way
from George Washington to Ronald Reagan put together. Go figure.
MODERATOR: Next question is for Senator Kerry, and this comes from
Norma Jean Larent (phonetic).
Q Senator Kerry, you've stated your concern for the rising cost
of health care. Yet you chose the vice presidential candidate who has
made millions of dollars successfully suing medical professionals. How
do you reconcile this with the voters?
SENATOR KERRY: Very easily. John Edwards is the author of the
Patients Bill of Rights. He wanted to give people rights. John
Edwards and I support tort reform. We both believe that as lawyers --
I'm a lawyer, too, and I believe that we will be able to get a fix that
has eluded everybody else, because we know how to do it. It's in my
health care proposal. Go to JohnKerry.com, you can pull it off the
Internet, and you'll find a tort reform plan.
Now, ladies and gentlemen, important to understand: The President
and his friends tried to make a big deal out of it. Is it a problem?
Yes, it's a problem. Do we need to fix it, particularly for OG/BYNs
[sic] and for brain surgeons and others? Yes. But it's less than one
percent of the total cost of health care. Your premiums are going up.
You've gone up in Missouri about $3,500. You've gone up 64 percent.
You've seen co-pays go up, deductibles go up, everything has gone up.
Five million people have lost their health insurance under this
President and he's done nothing about it.
I have a plan. I have a plan to lower the cost of health care for
you; I have a plan to cover all children; I have a plan to let you buy
into the same health care senators and congressmen give themselves; I
have a plan that's going to allow people 55 to 64 to buy into Medicare
early. And I have a plan that will take the catastrophic cases out of
the system, off your backs, pay for it out of a federal fund, which
lowers the premiums for everybody in America, makes American business
more competitive, and makes health care more affordable.
Now, all of that can happen, but I have to ask you to do one
thing. Join me in rolling back the President's unaffordable tax cut
for people earning more than $200,000 a year. That's all.
Ninety-eight percent of America, I'm giving you a tax cut and I'm
giving you health care.
MODERATOR: Mr. President, a minute-and-a-half.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Let me see where to start here. First, the
National Journal named Senator Kennedy [sic] the most liberal senator
of all. And that's saying something in that bunch. You might say that
took a lot of hard work.
The reason I bring that up is because he's proposed $2.2 trillion
in new spending and he says he's going to tax the rich to close the tax
gap. He can't. He's going to tax everybody here to fund his
programs. That's just reality.
And what are his health programs? First, he says he's for medical
liability reform, particularly for OB/GYNs. There was a bill on the
floor of the United States Senate that he could have showed up and
voted for if he's so much for it. Secondly, he says that medical
liability costs only cost one percent increase. That shows a lack of
understanding. Doctors practice defensive medicine because of all the
frivolous lawsuits that cost our government $28 billion a year.
And, finally, he says he's going to have a novel health care plan.
You know what it is? The federal government is going to run it. It is
the largest increase in federal government health care, ever. And it
fits with his philosophy. That's why I told you about the award he won
from the National Journal. That's what liberals do: they create
government-sponsored health care. Maybe you think that makes sense; I
don't. Government-sponsored health care would lead to rationing. It
would ruin the quality of health care in America.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, we got several questions along this
line, and I'm just curious if you'd go further on what you talked about
with tort reform. Would you be favoring capping awards on pain and
suffering? Would you limit attorneys' fees -- to follow up on this for
a minute. Thirty seconds.
SENATOR KERRY: Yeah, I think we should look at the punitive and we
should have some limitations. But, look, what's really important,
Charlie, is the President's just trying to scare everybody here. We're
throwing labels around. I mean, compassionate conservative? What does
that mean? Cutting 500,000 kids from after-school programs? Cutting
365,000 kids from health care? Running up the biggest deficits in
American history? Mr. President, you're batting 0 for 2. I mean,
seriously. Labels don't mean anything. What means something is do you
have a plan. And I want to talk about my plan some more. I hope we
can.
MODERATOR: We'll get to that in just a minute. Thirty seconds.
PRESIDENT BUSH: What does matter is the plan. He said he is for
-- you're now for capping punitive damages? That's odd. You should
have shown up on the floor in the Senate and voted for it then.
Medical liability issues are a problem, a significant problem. He's
been in the United States Senate for 20 years, and he hadn't addressed
it. We passed it out of the House of Representatives. Guess where it
stuck? It stuck in the Senate because the trial lawyers won't act on
it, and he put a trial lawyer on the ticket.
MODERATOR: The next question is for President Bush, and it comes
from Matthew O'Brien (phonetic).
Q Mr. President, you have enjoyed a Republican majority in the
House and Senate for most of your presidency. In that time, you've not
vetoed a single spending bill. Excluding $120 billion spent in Iran
and Afghan -- I'm sorry, Iraq and Afghanistan, there has been $700
billion spent and not paid for by taxes. Please explain how the
spending you have approved and not paid for is better for the American
people than the spending proposed for your opponent.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Right. Thank you for that. We have a deficit.
We have a deficit because this country went into a recession. You
might remember the stock market started to decline dramatically six
months before I came to office, and then the bubble of the 1990s
popped. And that cost us revenue. That cost us revenue.
Secondly, we're at war. And I'm going to spend what it takes to
win the war -- more than just $120 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan.
We've got to pay our troops more -- we have. We've increased money for
ammunition and weapons and pay and homeland security. I just told this
lady over here we spent -- went from $10 billion to $30 billion to
protect the homeland. I think we have an obligation to spend that kind
of money.
Plus, we cut taxes for everybody. Everybody got tax relief -- so
they get out of the recession. I think if you raise taxes during a
recession, you head to depression. I come from the school of thought
that says when people have more money in their pocket during tough
economic times, it increases demand or investment. Small businesses
begin to grow and jobs are added. We found out today that over the
past 13 months, we've added 1.9 million new jobs in the last 13
months. I proposed a plan, detailed budget, that shows us cutting the
deficit in half by five years.
And you're right, I haven't vetoed any spending bills because we
work together. Non-homeland, non-defense, discretionary spending was
at 15 percent a year when I got into office. And today it's less than
one percent, because we're working together to try to bring this
deficit under control. Like you, I'm concerned about the deficit. But
I am not going to short-change our troops in harm's way. And I'm not
going to run up taxes which will cost this economy jobs.
Thank you for your question.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, a minute-and-a-half.
SENATOR KERRY: Let me begin by saying that my health care plan is
not what the President described. It is not a government take-over.
You have choice. Choose your doctor, choose your plan. The government
has nothing to do with it. In fact, it doesn't ask you to do anything
-- if you don't want to take it, you don't have to. If you like your
high premiums, you keep them. That's the way we leave it.
Now, with respect to the deficit, the President was handed a $5.6
trillion surplus, ladies and gentlemen. That's where he was when he
came into office. We now have a $2.6 trillion deficit. This is the
biggest turnaround in the history of the country. He's the first
President in 72 years to lose jobs. He talked about war. This is the
first time the United States of America has ever had a tax cut when
we're at war. Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, others knew how to
lead. They knew how to ask the American people for the right things.
One percent of America -- the highest one percent of income earners
in America got $89 billion of tax cut last year. One percent of
America got more than the 80 percent of America that earned from
$100,000 down. The President thinks it's more important to fight for
that top one percent, than to fight for fiscal responsibility and to
fight for you.
I want to put money in your pocket. I am -- I have a proposal for
a tax cut for all people earning less than the $200,000. The only
people affected in my plan are the top income earners of America.
MODERATOR: I heard you both say -- I have heard you both say
during the campaign -- I just heard you say it -- that you're going to
cut the deficit by a half in four years. But I didn't hear one thing
in the last three and a half minutes that would indicate how either one
of you do that.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Look at the budget. One is, make sure Congress
doesn't overspend. But let me talk back about where we've been. The
stock market was declining six months prior to my arrival. It was the
largest stock market correction -- one of the largest in history --
which foretold a recession. Because we cut taxes on everybody --
remember, we ran up the child credit by $1,000, we reduced the marriage
penalty, we created a 10-percent bracket -- everybody who pays taxes
got relief. The recession was one of the shortest in our nation's
history.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds.
SENATOR KERRY: After 9/11, after the recession had ended, the
President asked for another tax cut and promised 5.6 million jobs would
be created. He lost 1.6 million, ladies and gentlemen. And most of
that tax cut went to the wealthiest people in the country. He came and
asked for a tax cut -- we wanted a tax cut to kick the economy into
gear. Do you know what he presented us with? A $25-billion giveaway
to the biggest corporations in America, including a $254-million refund
check to Enron. Wrong priorities. You are my priority.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, the next question will be for you, and
it comes from James Varner (phonetic), who I believe is in this
section. Mr. Varner? Need a microphone.
Q Thank you. Senator Kerry, would you be willing to look
directly into the camera and, using simple and unequivocal language,
give the American people your solemn pledge not to sign any legislation
that will increase the tax burden on families earning less than
$200,000 a year during your first term?
SENATOR KERRY: Absolutely. Yes. Right into the camera -- yes. I
am not going to raise taxes. I have a tax cut -- and here's my tax
cut. I raise the child care credit by $1,000 for families, to help
them be able to take care of their kids. I have a $4,000 tuition tax
credit that goes to parents and kids, if they're earning for
themselves, to be able to pay for college. And I lower the cost of
health care in the way that I described to you.
Every part of my program I've shown how I'm going to pay for it.
And I've gotten good people, like former Secretary of the Treasury Bob
Rubin, for instance, who showed how to balance budgets and give you a
good economy, to help me crunch these numbers and make them work. I've
even scaled back some of my favorite programs already, like the child
care program I wanted to fund, and the national service program,
because the President's deficit keeps growing and I've said as a
pledge, I'm going to cut the deficit in half in four years.
Now, I'm going to restore what we did in the 1990s, ladies and
gentlemen -- pay as you go. We're going to do it like you do it. The
President broke the pay-as-you-go rule. Somebody here asked the
question about why haven't you vetoed something. It's a good
question. If you care about it, why don't you veto it? I think John
McCain called the energy bill the "no lobbyist left behind bill." I
mean, you've got to stand up and fight somewhere, folks.
I'm pledging I will not raise taxes. I'm giving a tax cut to the
people earning less than $200,000 a year. Now, for the people earning
more than $200,000 a year, you are going to see a rollback to the level
we were at with Bill Clinton, when people made a lot of money. And
looking around here at this group here, I suspect there are only three
people here who are going to be affected: the President, me, and
Charlie, I'm sorry, you, too. (Laughter.)
MODERATOR: Mr. President, 90 seconds.
PRESIDENT BUSH: It's just not credible. When he talks about being
fiscally conservative, it's just not credible. If you look at his
record in the Senate, he voted to break the spending -- the caps, the
spending caps, over 200 times. And here he says he's going to be a
fiscal conservative all of a sudden -- it's just not credible. You
cannot believe it.
And, of course, he's going to raise your taxes. You see, he's
proposed $2.2 trillion of new spending. And so they said, well, how
are you going to pay for it? He said, well, he's going to raise the
taxes on the rich. That's what he said, the top two brackets. That
raises, he says, $800 billion, we say $600 billion. We've got battling
green eye shades -- somewhere in between those numbers. And so there
is a difference: what he's promised and what he could raise. Now,
either he's going to break all these wonderful promises he's told you
about, or he's going to raise taxes. And I suspect, given his record,
he's going to raise taxes.
Is my time up yet?
MODERATOR: No, you can keep going.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Keep going, good. (Laughter.)
MODERATOR: You're on --
PRESIDENT BUSH: You looked at me like my clock was up.
I think that the way to grow this economy is to keep taxes low, is
to have an energy plan, is to have litigation reform. As I told you,
we just got a report that said over the past 13 months, we've created
1.9 million new jobs. We're growing. And so the fundamental question
of this campaign is who's going to keep the economy growing so people
can work? That's the fundamental question.
MODERATOR: I'm going to come back one more time to how these
numbers add up and how you can cut that deficit in half in four years,
given what you've both said.
SENATOR KERRY: Well, first of all, the President's figures of $2.2
trillion just aren't accurate. Those are the fuzzy math figures put
together by some group that works for the campaign. That's not the
number.
Number two, John McCain and I have a proposal jointly for a
commission that closes corporate giveaway loopholes. We've got $40
million going to Bermuda. We've got all kinds of giveaways. We ought
to be shutting those down.
And third, credible? Ladies and gentlemen, in 1985, I was one of
the first Democrats to move to balance the budget. I voted for the
balanced budget in '93 and '97. We did it. We did it, and I was
there.
MODERATOR: Thirty seconds -- I'm sorry, thirty seconds, Mr.
President.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Yeah, I mean, he's got a record. He's been there
for 20 years. You can run, but you can't hide. He voted 98 times to
raise taxes. I mean, these aren't make-up figures. And so people are
going to have to look at the record. Look at the record of the man
running for the President. They don't name him the most liberal in the
United States because he hasn't shown up to many meetings. They named
him because of his votes. And it's reality. It's just not credible to
say he's going to keep taxes down and balance budgets.
MODERATOR: Mr. President, the next question is for you and it
comes from James Hubb, over here.
Q Mr. President, how would you rate yourself as an
environmentalist? What specifically has your administration done to
improve the condition of our nation's air and water supply?
PRESIDENT BUSH: Off-road diesel engines. We have reached an
agreement to reduce pollution from off-road diesel engines by 90
percent. I've got a plan to increase the wetlands by three million.
We've got an aggressive brownfield program to refurbish inner-city sore
spots to useful pieces of property.
I proposed to the United States Congress a Clear Skies Initiative
to reduce sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide and mercury by 70 percent. I
was -- fought for a very strong title in the farm bill for the
Conservation Reserve Program to set aside millions of acres of land for
-- to help improve wildlife in the habitat.
We proposed and passed a Healthy Forest bill, which was essential
to working with -- particularly in western states, to make sure that
our forests were protected. What happens in those forests, because of
lousy federal policy, is they grow to be -- they are not -- they're not
harvested. They're not taken care of. And as a result, they're like
tinder boxes. And over the last summers, as I've flown over there.
And so this is a reasonable policy to protect old stands of trees and,
at the same time, make sure our forests aren't vulnerable to the forest
fires that destroy acres after acres in the West. We've got a good,
common-sense policy.
Now, I'm going to tell you what I really think is going to happen
over time, is technology is going to change the way we live for the
good -- for the environment. So I proposed a hydrogen automobile, a
hydrogen-generated automobile. We're spending a billion dollars to
come up with the technologies to do that.
That's why I'm a big proponent of clean coal technology, to make
sure we can use coal, but in a clean way. I guess you'd say I'm a good
steward of the land. The quality of the air is cleaner since I've been
the President. Fewer water complaints since I've been the President.
More land being restored since I've been the President.
Thank you for your question.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, a minute-and-a-half.
SENATOR KERRY: Boy, to listen to that, the President I don't think
is living in a world of reality with respect to the environment. Now,
if you're a Red Sox fan, that's okay. But if you're a President, it's
not. Let me just say to you, number one, don't throw the labels
around. Labels don't mean anything. I supported welfare reform. I
led the fight to put 100,000 cops on the streets of America. I've been
for faith-based initiatives helping to intervene in the lives of young
children for years. I was -- broke with my party in 1985, one of the
first three Democrats to fight for a balanced budget when it was
heresy. Labels don't fit, ladies and gentlemen.
Now, when it comes to the issue of the environment, this is one of
the worst administrations in modern history. The Clear Skies bill that
he just talked about, it's one of those Orwellian names you pull out of
the sky, slap it onto something like No Child Left Behind, but you
leave millions of children behind -- here they're leaving the skies and
the environment behind.
If they just left the Clean Air Act all alone the way it is today,
no change, the air would be cleaner than it is if you pass the Cleaner
Skies Act. We're going backwards. In fact, his environmental
enforcement chief air quality person at the EPA resigned in protest
over what they're doing to what are called the New Source Performance
Standards for air quality. They're going backwards on the definition
for wetlands. They're going backwards on the water quality. They
pulled out of the global warming, declared it dead; didn't even accept
the science. I'm going to be a president who believes in science.
MODERATOR: Mr. President?
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, had we joined the Kyota Treaty, which I
guess he's referring to -- it would have cost America a lot of jobs.
It's one of these deals where in order to be popular in the halls of
Europe, you sign a treaty. But I thought it would cost a lot -- I
think there's a better way to do it. And I just told you the facts,
sir. The quality of air is cleaner since I've been the President of
the United States. And we'll continue to spend money on research and
development because I truly believe that's the way to get from how we
live today to being able to live a standard of living that we're
accustomed to, and being able to protect our environment better -- the
use of technologies.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds.
SENATOR KERRY: The fact is that the Kyoto Treaty was flawed. I
was in Kyoto and I was part of that. I know what happened. But this
President didn't try to fix it. He just declared it dead, ladies and
gentlemen, and
we walked away from the work of 160 nations over 10 years. You
wonder, Nicki, why it is that people don't like us in some parts of the
world. You just say, hey, we don't agree with you -- goodbye. The
President has done nothing to try to fix it. I will.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, the next question is for you. It
involves jobs, which is a topic in the news today. And for the
question, we're going to turn to Jane Barrow (phonetic.)
Q Senator Kerry, how can the U.S. be competitive in a
manufacturing given -- in manufacturing, excuse me, given the wage
necessary and comfortably accepted for American workers to maintain the
standard of living that they expect?
SENATOR KERRY: Jane, there are a lot of ways to be competitive.
And, unfortunately, again, I regret, this administration has not seized
them, and embraced them. Let me give you an example. There's a tax
loophole right now -- if you're a company in St. Louis working, trying
to make jobs here, there's actually an incentive for you to go away.
You get more money, you can keep more of your taxes by going abroad.
I'm going to shut that loophole, and I'm going to give the tax benefit
to the companies that stay here in America to help make them more
competitive.
Secondly, we're going to create a manufacturing jobs credit and a
new jobs credit for people to be able to help hire and be more
competitive here in America. Third, what's really hurting American
business, more than anything else, is the cost of health care. Now,
you didn't hear any plan from the President, because he doesn't have a
plan to lower the cost of health care. Five million Americans have
lost their health care; 620,000 Missourians have no health care at all;
96,000 Missourians have lost their health care under President Bush.
I have a plan to cover those folks, and it's a plan that lowers
costs for everybody, covers all children. And the way I pay for it --
I'm not fiscally irresponsible -- is I roll back the tax cut that this
President so fiercely wants to defend, the one for him and me and
Charlie. I think you ought to get the break. I want to lower your
cost of health care. I want to fully fund education, No Child Left
Behind, special needs education.
And that's how we're going to be more competitive, by making sure
our kids are graduating from school and college. China and India are
graduating more graduates in technology and science than we are. We've
got to create the products of the future. That's why I have a plan for
energy independence within 10 years. And we're going to put our
laboratories and our colleges and universities to work, and we're going
to get the great entrepreneurial spirit of this country, and we're
going to free ourselves from this dependency on Mideast oil. That's
how you create jobs and become competitive.
MODERATOR: Mr. President, minute-and-a-half.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Let me start with how to control the costs of
health care: medical liability reform, for starters, which he's
opposed. Secondly, allow small businesses to pool together, so they
can share risk and buy insurance at the same discounts big businesses
get to do. Thirdly, spread what's called health savings accounts.
It's good for small businesses, good for owners. You own your own
account, you can save tax free. You get a catastrophic plan to help
you, own it. This is different from saying, okay, let me incent you to
go on the government.
He's talking about his plan to keep jobs here. You know, he calls
it an outsourcing -- to keep -- stop outsourcing. Robert Rubin looked
at his plan and said it won't work. The best way to keep jobs here in
America is, one, have an energy plan. I proposed one to the Congress
two years ago. It encourages conservation, encourages technology to
explore for environmentally friendly ways for coal and use coal and
gas. It encourages the use of renewables like ethanol and biodiesel.
It's stuck in the Senate. He and his running mate didn't show up to
vote when they could have got it going in the Senate. Less regulations
if we want jobs here. Legal reforms if we want jobs here. And we've
got to keep taxes low.
Now, he says he's only going to tax the rich. Do you realize
900,000 small businesses will be taxed under his plan because most
small businesses are subchapter S corps or limited partnerships, and
they pay tax at the individual income tax level. And so when you're
running up the taxes like that, you're taxing job creators, and that's
not how you keep jobs here.
Q Senator, I want to extend for a minute. You talk about tax
credits to stop outsourcing. But when you have IBM documents that I
saw recently, where you can hire a programmer for $12 in China, $56 an
hour here, tax credits won't cut it in that area.
SENATOR KERRY: You can't stop all outsourcing, Charlie. I've
never promised that, I'm not going to, because that would be
pandering. You can't. But what you can do is create a fair playing
field, and that's what I'm talking about.
But let me just address what the President just said. Ladies and
gentlemen, that's just not true what he said. The Wall Street Journal
said 96 percent of small businesses are not affected at all by my
plan. And you know why he gets that count? The President got $84 from
a timber company that he owns, and he's counted as a small business.
Dick Cheney is counted as a small business. That's how they do
things. That's just not right.
PRESIDENT BUSH: I own a timber company? That's news to me.
(Laughter.) Need some wood? (Laughter.)
Most small businesses are subchapter S corps. They just are. I
met Grant Milliron, Mansfield, Ohio. He's creating jobs. Most small
businesses, 70 percent of the new jobs in America are created by small
businesses. His taxes are going up when you run up the top two
brackets. It's a fact.
MODERATOR: President Bush, the next question is for you, and it
comes from Rob Fowler, who I believe is over in this area.
Q President Bush, 45 days after 9/11, Congress passed the
Patriot Act, which takes away checks on law enforcement, weakens
American citizens' rights and freedoms, especially Fourth Amendment
rights. With expansions of the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II, my
question to you is, why are my rights being watered down and my
citizens around me, and what are the specific justifications for these
reforms?
PRESIDENT BUSH: Yes, I appreciate that. I really don't think your
rights are being watered down. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't support
it if I thought that. Every action being taken against terrorists
requires a court order, requires scrutiny. As a matter of fact, the
tools now given to the terrorist fighters are the same tools that we've
been using against drug dealers and white-collar criminals. So I
really don't think so. I hope you don't think that. I mean, I --
because I think whoever is the President must guard your liberties,
must not erode your rights in America.
The Patriot Act is necessary, for example, because parts of the FBI
couldn't talk to each other. Intelligence gathering and the law
enforcement arms of the FBI just couldn't share intelligence under the
old law, and that didn't make any sense. Our law enforcement must have
every tool necessary to find and disrupt terrorists at home and abroad
before they hurt us again. That's the task of the 21st century.
And so I don't think the Patriot Act abridges your rights at all.
And I know it's necessary. I can remember being in upstate New York
talking to FBI agents that helped bust the Lackawanna cell up there.
And they told me they could not have performed their duty, the duty we
all expect of them, if they did not have the ability to communicate
with each other under the Patriot Act.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, a minute-and-a-half.
SENATOR KERRY: Former Governor Racicot, as Chairman of the
Republican Party, said he thought that the Patriot Act has to be
changed and fixed. Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner, who's the Chairman
of the House Judiciary Committee, has said over his dead body before it
gets renewed without being thoroughly rechecked. Whole bunch of folks
in America concerned about the way the Patriot Act has been applied.
In fact, the Inspector General of the Justice Department found that
John Ashcroft had twice applied it in ways that were inappropriate.
People's right have been abused. I met a man who spent eight months in
prison -- wasn't even allowed to call his lawyer, wasn't allowed to --
finally, Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois intervened and was able to get
him out. This was in our country, folks, the United States of
America. They've got sneak-and-peak searches that are allowed.
They've got people allowed to go into churches now and political
meetings, without any showing of potential criminal activity or
otherwise.
Now, I voted for the Patriot Act -- 99 United States senators voted
for it. And the President has been very busy running around the
country using what I just described to you as a reason to say I'm
wishy-washy, that I'm a flip-flopper. Now, that's not a flip-flop. I
believe in the Patriot Act. We need the things in it that coordinate
the FBI and the CIA. We need to be stronger on terrorism. But you
know what we also need to do as Americans, is never let the terrorists
change the Constitution of the United States in a way that
disadvantages our rights.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, the next question is for you, and it
comes from Elizabeth Long.
Q Senator Kerry, thousands of people have already been cured or
treated by the use of adult stem cells, or umbilical chord stem cells.
However, no one was been cured by using embryonic stem cells. Wouldn't
it be wise to use stem cells obtained without the destruction of an
embryo.
SENATOR KERRY: You know, Elizabeth, I really respect your -- the
feeling that's in your question. I understand it. I know the morality
that's prompting that question, and I respect it enormously. But like
Nancy Reagan and so many other people -- you know, I was at a forum
with Michael J. Fox the other day in New Hampshire, who's suffering
from Parkinson's. And he wants us to do stem cell -- embryonic stem
cell. And this fellow stood up and he was quivering, his whole body
was shaking from the nerve disease, the muscular disease that he had,
and he said to me and to the whole hall, he said, you know, don't take
away my hope because my hope is what keeps me going. Chris Reeve is a
friend of mine. Chris Reeve exercises every single day to keep those
muscles alive for the day when he believes he can walk again -- and I
want him to walk again.
I think we can save lives. Now, I think we can do ethically guided
embryonic stem cell research. We have 100,000 to 200,000 embryos that
are frozen in nitrogen today from fertility clinics. These weren't
taken from abortion or something like that, they're from a fertility
clinic. And they're either going to be destroyed or left frozen. And
I believe if we have the option, which scientists tell us we do, of
curing Parkinson's, curing diabetes, curing some kind of a paraplegic
or quadriplegic or a spinal cord injury, anything -- that's the nature
of the human spirit. I think it is respecting life to reach for that
cure. I think it is respecting life to do it in an ethical way.
And the President's chosen a policy that makes it impossible for
our scientists to do that. I want the future, and I think we have to
grab it.
MODERATOR: Mr. President, a minute-and-a-half.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Embryonic stem cell research requires the
destruction of life to create a stem cell. I'm the first President
ever to allow funding, federal funding, for embryonic stem cell
research. I did so because I, too, hope that we'll discover cures from
the stem cells and from the research derived.
But I think -- I think we've got to be very careful in balancing
the ethics and the science. And so I made the decision we wouldn't
spend any more money beyond the 70 lines, 22 of which are now in
action, because science is important, but so is ethics. So is
balancing life. To destroy life to save life is one of the real
ethical dilemmas that we face.
There is going to be hundreds of experiments off the 22 lines that
now exist, that are active, and hopefully we find a cure. But as well,
we need to continue to pursue adult stem cell research. I helped
double the NIH budget to $28 billion a year to find cures. And the
approach I took is one that I think is a balanced and necessary
approach, to balance science and the concerns for life.
MODERATOR: Senator, thirty seconds, let's extend.
SENATOR KERRY: When you talk about walking a waffle line, he says
he's allowed it, which means he's going to allow the destruction of
life up to a certain amount, and then he isn't going to allow it. Now,
I don't know how you draw that line. But let me tell you, point-blank,
the lines of stem cells that he's made available, every scientist in
the country will tell you, not adequate, because they're contaminated
by mouse cells, and because there aren't 60 or 70, there are only about
11 to 20 now, and there aren't enough to be able to do the research
because they're contaminated.
We've got to open up the possibilities of this research. And when
I am President, I'm going to do it, because we have to.
MODERATOR: Mr. President.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Let me make sure you understand my decision.
Those stem cell lines already existed. The embryo had already been
destroyed prior to my decision. I had to make the decision, do we
destroy more life, do we continue to destroy life. I made the decision
to balance science and ethics.
MODERATOR: Mr. President, the next question is for you, and it
comes from Jonathan Mickelson (phonetic.)
Q Mr. President, if there were a vacancy in the Supreme Court,
and you had the opportunity to fill that position today, who would you
choose, and why?
PRESIDENT BUSH: I'm not telling. (Laughter.) I really don't have
-- I haven't picked anybody yet. Plus, I want them all voting for me.
(Laughter.) I would pick somebody who would not allow their personal
opinion to get in the way of the law. I would pick somebody who would
strictly interpret the Constitution of the United States.
Let me give you a couple of examples, I guess, of the kind of
person I wouldn't pick. I wouldn't pick a judge who said that the
Pledge of Allegiance couldn't be said in a school because it had the
words, "under God," in it. I think that's an example of a judge
allowing personal opinion to enter into the decision-making process, as
opposed to strict interpretation of the Constitution.
Another example would be the Dred Scott case, which is where judges
years ago said that the Constitution allowed slavery because of
personal property rights. That's personal opinion; that's not what the
Constitution says. The Constitution of the United States says we're
all -- it doesn't say that, it doesn't speak to the equality of
America.
And so I would pick people that would be strict constructionists.
We've got plenty of lawmakers in Washington, D.C. Legislators make
law; judges interpret the Constitution. And I suspect one of us will
have a pick at the end of next year -- next four years. And that's the
kind of judge I'm going to put on there. No litmus test except for how
they interpret the Constitution.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, a minute-and-a-half.
SENATOR KERRY: Thank you, Charlie. A few years ago, when he came
to office, the President said -- these are his words -- "What we need
are some good conservative judges on the courts." And he said also
that his two favorite justices are Justice Scalia and Justice Thomas.
So you get a pretty good sense of where he's heading if he were to
appoint somebody.
Now, here's what I believe. I don't believe we need a good
conservative judge and I don't believe we need a good liberal judge. I
don't believe we need a good judge of that kind of definition on either
side. I subscribe to the Justice Potter Stewart standard -- he was a
justice on the Supreme Court of the United States -- and he said the
mark of a good judge, a good justice, is that when you're reading their
decision, their opinion, you can't tell if it's written by a man or a
woman, a liberal or a conservative, a Muslim, a Jew or a Christian; you
just know you're reading a good judicial decision.
What I want to find, if I'm privileged to have the opportunity to
do it -- and the Supreme Court of the United States is at stake in this
race, ladies and gentlemen -- the future of things that matter to you,
in terms of civil rights, what kind of Justice Department you'll have;
whether we'll enforce the law; will we have equal opportunity; will
women's rights be protected; will we have equal pay for women, which is
going backwards -- will a woman's right to chose be protected. They
are constitutional rights, and I want to make sure we have judges who
interpret the Constitution of the United States according to the law.
MODERATOR: Going to go to the final two questions, now. And the
first one will be for Senator Kerry, and this comes from Sarah
Degenheart (phonetic).
Q Senator Kerry, suppose you are speaking with a voter who
believed abortion is murder, and the voter asked for reassurance that
his or her tax dollars would not go to support abortion. What would
you say to that person?
SENATOR KERRY: I would say to that person exactly what I will say
to you right now. First of all, I cannot tell you how deeply I respect
the belief about life and when it begins. I'm a Catholic, raised a
Catholic, I was an altar boy. Religion has been a huge part of my
life. It helped lead me through a war, leads me today. But I can't
take what is an article of faith for me and legislate it for someone
who doesn't share that article of faith, whether they be agnostic,
atheist, Jew, protestant, whatever. I can't do that.
But I can counsel people. I can talk reasonably about life and
about responsibility. I can talk to people, as my wife Teresa does,
about making other choices, and about abstinence, and about all these
other things that we ought to do as a responsible society. But as a
President, I have to represent all the people in the nation. And I
have to make that judgment.
Now, I believe that -- that you can take that position and not be
pro-abortion. But you have to afford people their constitutional
rights. And that means being smart about allowing people to be fully
educated, to know what their options are in life, and making certain
that you don't deny a poor person the right to be able to have whatever
the Constitution affords them if they can't afford it otherwise.
That's why I think it's important. That's why I think it's
important for the United States, for instance, not to have this rigid
ideological restriction on helping families around the world to be able
to make a smart decision about family planning. You'll help prevent
AIDS. You'll help prevent unwanted children, unwanted pregnancies.
You'll actually do a better job, I think, of passing on the moral
responsibility that is expressed in your question and I truly respect
it.
MODERATOR: Mr. President, a minute-and-a-half.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Trying to decipher that. (Laughter.) My answer
is we're not going to spend federal taxpayers' money on abortion. This
is an issue that divides America, but certainly reasonable people can
agree on how to reduce abortions in America. I signed the ban on
partial-birth abortion. It's a brutal practice. It's one way to help
reduce abortions. My opponent voted against the ban. I think there
ought to be parental notification laws. He's against them. I signed a
bill called the Unborn Victims of Violent Act -- in other words, if
you're a mom and you're pregnant, you get killed, the murderer gets
tried for two cases, not just one. My opponent is against that. These
are reasonable ways to help promote a culture of life in America.
I think it is a worthy goal in America to have every child
protected by law and welcomed in life. I also think we ought to
continue to have good adoption law as an alternative to abortion. And
we need to promote maternity group homes, which my administration has
done. Culture of life is really important for a country to have if
it's going to be a hospitable society.
Thank you.
MODERATOR: Senator, do you want to follow up? Thirty seconds.
SENATOR KERRY: Well, again, the President just said categorically,
my opponent is against this, my opponent is against that. It's just
not that simple. No, I'm not. I'm against the partial-birth abortion,
but you've got to have an exception for the life of the mother and the
health of the mother under the strictest test of bodily injury to the
mother. Secondly, with respect to parental notification, I'm not going
to require a 16 or 17-year old kid who's been raped by her father and
who's pregnant to have to notify her father. So you've got to have a
judicial intervention. And because they didn't have a judicial
intervention where she could go somewhere and get help, I voted against
it. It's never quite as simple as the President wants you to believe.
MODERATOR: And 30 seconds, Mr. President.
PRESIDENT BUSH: It's pretty simple when they say, are you for a
ban on partial-birth abortion -- yes or no. And he was given a chance
to vote. And he voted no. And that's just the way it is. That's a
vote. It came right up, it's clear for everybody to see. And, as I
said, you can run, but you can't hide. It's reality.
MODERATOR: And the final question of the evening will be addressed
to President Bush and it will come from Linda Grable (phonetic). Linda
Grable is over here.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Put a head fake on -- laughter) --
MODERATOR: I got faked out, myself. (Laughter.)
Q President Bush, during the last four years, you have made
thousands of decisions that have affected millions of lives. Please
give three instances in which you came to realize you had made a wrong
decision, and what you did to correct it. Thank you.
PRESIDENT BUSH: I have made a lot of decisions -- some of them
little, like appointments to board you've never heard of, and some of
them big. And in a war, there's a lot of tactical decisions that
historians will look back and say, you shouldn't have done that, you
shouldn't have made that decision. And I'll take responsibility for
them. I'm human.
But on the big questions about whether or not we should have gone
into Afghanistan, the big question about whether we should have removed
somebody in Iraq, I'll stand by those decisions because I think they're
right. That's really what you're -- when they ask about the mistakes,
that's what they're talking about. They're trying to say, did you make
a mistake going into Iraq? And the answer is absolutely not. It's the
right decision.
The Duelfer report confirmed that decision today, because what
Saddam Hussein was doing was trying to get rid of sanctions so he could
reconstitute a weapons program, and the biggest threat facing America
is terrorists with weapons of mass destruction. We knew he hated us.
We knew he had been a -- invaded other countries. We knew he tortured
his own people.
On the tax cut, it's a big decision. I did the right decision.
Our recession was one of the shallowest in modern history. Now, you
ask what mistakes -- I made some mistakes in appointing people, but I'm
not going to name them. I don't want to hurt their feelings on
national TV. But history will look bac, and I'm fully prepared to
accept any mistakes that history judges to my administration. Because
the President makes the decisions, the President has to take the
responsibility.
MODERATOR: Senator Kerry, a minute-and-a-half.
SENATOR KERRY: I believe the President made a huge mistake, a
catastrophic mistake not to live up to his own standard, which was
build a true global coalition, give the inspectors time to finish their
job and go through the U.N. process to its end, and go to war as a last
resort.
I ask each of you just to look into your hearts, look into your
guts, gut-check time. Was this really going to war as a last resort?
The President rushed our nation to war without a plan to win the
peace. And simple things weren't done. That's why Senator Lugar says
"incompetent" in the delivery of services. That's why Senator Hagel,
Republican, says, beyond pitiful, beyond embarrassing, in the zone of
dangerous.
We didn't guard 850,000 tons of ammo. That ammo is now being used
against our kids. Ten thousand out of 12,000 humvees aren't armored.
I've visited some of those kids with no limbs today because they didn't
have the armor on those vehicles. They didn't have the right body
armor. I've met parents who've, on the Internet, gotten the armor to
send their kids.
There's no bigger judgment for a President of the United States
than how you take a nation to war. And you can't say, because Saddam
might have done it ten years from now, that's a reason; that's an
excuse.
MODERATOR: Mr. President.
PRESIDENT BUSH: He complains about the fact our troops don't have
adequate equipment, yet he voted against the $87 billion supplemental I
sent to the Congress, and then issued one of the most amazing quotes in
political history: "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I
voted against it."
Saddam Hussein was a risk to our country, ma'am. And he was a risk
that -- and this is where we just have a difference of opinion. The
truth of the matter is, if you listen carefully, Saddam would still be
in power if he were the President of the United States, and the world
would be a lot better off. [sic]
MODERATOR: And, Senator Kerry, 30 seconds.
SENATOR KERRY: Not necessarily be in power, but here's what I'll
say about the $87 billion. I made a mistake in the way I talked about
it; he made a mistake in invading Iraq. Which is a worse decision?
Now, I voted the way I voted because I saw that he had the policy
wrong, and I wanted accountability. I didn't want to give a slush fund
to Halliburton. I also thought the wealthiest people in America ought
to pay for it, ladies and gentlemen. He wants your kids to pay for
it. I wanted us to pay for it, since we're at war. I don't think
that's a bad decision.
MODERATOR: That's going to conclude the questioning. We're going
to go now to closing statements. Two minutes from each candidate. And
the first closing statement goes to Senator Kerry. I believe that was
the agreement.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Go ahead. Actually --
SENATOR KERRY: You want to go first?
PRESIDENT BUSH: Either way. (Laughter.)
SENATOR KERRY: Thank you. Charlie, thank you. And thank you
all. Thank you, all of you, for taking part. Thanks for your
questions tonight very, very much.
Obviously, the President and I both have very strong convictions.
I respect him for that. But we have a very different view about how to
make America stronger and safer. I will never cede the authority of
our country or our security to any other nation. I'll never give a
veto of American security to any other entity -- not a nation, not a
country, not an institution. But I know, as I think you do, that our
country is strongest when we lead the world, when we lead strong
alliances. And that's the way Eisenhower and Reagan and Kennedy and
others did it. We are not doing that today; we need to.
I have a plan that will help us go out and kill and find the
terrorists, and I will not stop in our effort to hunt down and kill the
terrorists. But I also have a better plan on how we're going to deal
with Iraq: training the Iraqi forces more rapidly, getting our allies
back to the table with a fresh start, with new credibility, with a
President whose judgment the rest of the world trusts.
In addition to that, I believe we have a crisis here at home, a
crisis of the middle class that is increasingly squeezed; health care
costs going up. I have a plan to provide health care to all
Americans. I have a plan to provide for our schools so we keep the
standards, but we help our teachers teach, and elevate our schools by
funding No Child Left Behind. I have a plan to protect the environment
so that we leave this place in better shape to our children than we
were handed it by our parents -- that's the test.
I believe America's best days are ahead of us. I'm an optimist.
But we have to make the right choices, to be fiscally responsible and
to create the new jobs of the future. We can do this. And I ask you
for the privilege of leading our nation to be stronger at home and
respected again in the world.
Thank you.
MODERATOR: Senator. And a closing statement from President Bush.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Charlie, thanks. Thank you all very much. It's
been enjoyable.
The great contest for the presidency is about the future, who can
lead, who can get things done. We've been through a lot together as a
country -- been through a recession, corporate scandals, war. And yet,
think about where we are. We added 1.9 million new jobs over the past
13 months. The farm income in America is high. Small businesses are
flourishing. Home ownership rate is at an all-time high in America.
We're on the move.
Tonight I had a chance to discuss with you what to do to keep this
economy going: keep the taxes low, don't increase the scope of the
federal government, keep regulations down, legal reform, a health care
policy that does not empower the federal government, but empowers
individuals, and an energy plan that will help us become less dependent
on foreign sources of energy.
And abroad, we're at war. And it requires a President who is
steadfast and strong and determined. I vowed to the American people
after that fateful day of September the 11th that we would not rest,
nor tire until we're safe. The 9/11 Commission put out a report that
said America is safer, but not yet safe. There's more work to be
done. We'll stay on the hunt on al Qaeda. We'll deny sanctuary to
these terrorists. We'll make sure they do not end up with weapons of
mass destruction. The great nexus, the great threat to our country is
that these haters end up with weapons of mass destruction.
But our long-term security depends on our deep faith in liberty.
We'll continue to promote freedom around the world. Freedom is on the
march. Tomorrow, Afghanistan will be voting for a President. In Iraq,
we'll be having free elections, and a free society will make this world
more peaceful.
God bless.
MODERATOR: Mr. President and Senator Kerry. That concludes
tonight's debate.
I want to give you a reminder that the third and final debate, on
issues of domestic policy will be held next Wednesday, October 13th, at
Arizona State University in Tempe, Arizona, hosted by Bob Schieffer of
CBS News.
I want to thank President Bush and Senator Kerry for tonight. I
want to thank these citizens of the St. Louis area who asked the
questions, who gave so willingly of their time, and who took their
responsibility very seriously.
Thank you also to everyone at Washington -- (applause.) I want to
thank everyone at Washington University in St. Louis for being such
gracious hosts.
I'm Charles Gibson, from ABC News, from St. Louis, good night.
(Applause.)
END 10:38 P.M. CDT
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