President Bush phoned Russian President Vladimir Putin to express U.S. concerns "involving prohibited hardware that has been transferred from Russian companies to Iraq," White House Press Spokesman Ari Fleischer told journalists during the March 24 White House press briefing.

"We are very concerned that there are reports of ongoing cooperation and support to Iraqi military forces being provided by a Russian company that produces GPS [global positioning system] jamming equipment," Fleischer said in response to a journalist's question. "There are other causes of concern, as well, involving night-vision goggles and anti-tank guided missiles."

He said Putin assured Bush that he would look into these matters "and President Bush said he looked forward to hearing the results."

Fleischer said the two presidents also discussed the situation in Iraq and cooperation on humanitarian issues. "They both reiterated their strong support for the U.S.-Russia partnership, and agreed to continue, despite the differences that the two have over Iraq," he said.

March 24, 2003

INDEX
-- Putin phone call, hardware to Iraq

James S. Brady Press Briefing Room
1:00 P.M. EST

MR. FLEISCHER: [...] The President also spoke with President Putin to discuss the situation involving Iraq. They discussed cooperation on humanitarian issues. They both reiterated their strong support for the U.S.-Russia partnership, and agreed to continue, despite the differences that the two have over Iraq. And the two also discussed the United States' concerns, which President Bush discussed, involving prohibited hardware that has been transferred from Russian companies to Iraq. [...]

QUESTION: Did the President tell President Putin that he was just concerned, or angry about turning over hardware that's being used against U.S. troops? And how recently was this hardware turned over, before or after the war broke out?

MR. FLEISCHER: Well, we are very concerned that there are reports of ongoing cooperation and support to Iraqi military forces being provided by a Russian company that produces GPS [global positioning system]-jamming equipment. This is what was discussed in the phone call. There are other causes of concern, as well, involving night-vision goggles and anti-tank guided missiles. So we do have concerns that some aspects of this may be ongoing. Those concerns were raised in the phone call today. President Putin assured President Bush that he would look into it, and President Bush said he looked forward to hearing the results.

Q: Just to be clear, by saying ongoing -- there are reports, U.S. intelligence reports, or media reports, that the jamming equipment has been delivered since the war began?

MR. FLEISCHER: I assure you the President does not make comments to foreign leaders based only on media reports. We have concerns; those concerns have been expressed at the highest levels, and these are concerns that have been expressed repeatedly over the last quite some little while. This is not the first instance in which these concerns have been raised with officials. Senior U.S. government officials have repeatedly raised this issue with their Russian counterparts over the past year, in the hopes that the Russian government will move aggressively to cut the cooperation from this company, or the companies involved.

Q: That's my point, this is not the first time the United States has raised this concern --

MR. FLEISCHER: Correct.

Q: -- aren't we looking for more than just that we're concerned here?

MR. FLEISCHER: Well, again, I'm not going to give you the verbatims on a presidential phone call, but I've expressed to you the concerns that we have in the United States about this. And as I said this morning, we find these actions to be disturbing.

Q: Have they been going on since the war began?

MR. FLEISCHER: I said these concerns have been raised going back now almost a year.

[...]

Q: The Russian Foreign Minister, Mr. Ivanov, has just said Russia has observed all U.N. sanctions, not supplied military equipment to Iraq. He said the U.S. has had several inquiries. He said, our experts have checked these inquiries meticulously, including a recent one, and did not find any proof. He's lying?

MR. FLEISCHER: Well, those statements were made prior to the statements that were made this morning by the White House. And I'm certain now with the phone call that was made to the President, Russia will take a look at what their Russian companies are doing. That's exactly what the Foreign Minister's boss told the President of the United States he would do.

Q: Does the President consider that anyone who is arming our enemy is our enemy?

MR. FLEISCHER: I expressed to you that the relations between the United States and Russia are important relations that the two Presidents are dedicated to keeping. There are problems. This clearly is a problem that needs to be resolved. And this is why it came up in the phone call. This is why it's disturbing. And this is why the two have talked about it, for the purpose of resolving it.

[...]

Q: Ari, two questions: First, on the issue of the conversation with President Putin about the Russian technology. Is it the United States government's concern solely that Russia or a Russian company transferred to Iraq this GPS-jamming equipment? Or did the President discuss concerns that perhaps there are Russian advisors inside Iraq now helping the Iraqis use this equipment?

MR. FLEISCHER: No, the issue that was raised in the phone call was the transfer from Russian companies to Iraqi authorities of this technology.

[...]

Q: Ari, another question on the Russian equipment. Do you have any evidence that the GPS-jamming devices or the night-vision goggles or anything else is being used right now by Iraqi forces against American troops?

MR. FLEISCHER: We have credible evidence that Russian companies provided the assistance and the prohibited hardware to the Iraqi regime. That's why we have found these actions to be disturbing. Beyond that -- I'm not prepared to say with any level of specificity beyond that. But we have concerns they were provided. They were not provided for the purpose of sitting on shelves.

Q: So you don't know for sure that they're being used right now, but you are concerned that they might be?

MR. FLEISCHER: Again, I think I've expressed it.

[...]

Q: If I could ask one other thing about the Russian thing. Do you have any indication that the materials we're talking about -- the GPS jammers and so forth -- were sent into Iraq on humanitarian aid flights?

MR. FLEISCHER: I don't have that level of information.

[...]

Q: Back on the Russian equipment. First of all, in your answer to Terry's question, did you mean to imply that President Putin retracted the denials that Foreign Secretary Ivanov had made earlier?

MR. FLEISCHER: No, I just said that he would look into it.

Q: Did he repeat those denials?

MR. FLEISCHER: I'm going to leave all details of the conversation beyond this between the two Presidents. But he said he would look into it.

Q: Do you know for certain that Ivanov spoke before you spoke this morning on this issue?

MR. FLEISCHER: I do. I saw it on the wire before I spoke this morning. In fact, the wire said, speaking before the White House spokesman spoke, the Russian Foreign Minister spoke. (Laughter.)

Q: Second question. Your answer -- you said that you couldn't go beyond that -- is that because you don't know if this equipment has been brought to bear yet, or you know and you won't say?

MR. FLEISCHER: I'm just going to leave it where I left it.

Q: Ari, you said that this concern about this Russian equipment goes back at least a year. Has the President ever had a personal conversation about it with President Putin before? And is this equipment that would be banned under the terms of the surrender back in 1991?

MR. FLEISCHER: I couldn't tell you about under the surrender. But, of course, under the surrender does apply to the United Nations sanctions, and this type of material is prohibited to be transferred to Iraq. Iraq is not allowed to purchase this type of material under United Nations resolutions.

Q: How about the conversation? Has the President ever had a personal conversation with President Putin about this before?

MR. FLEISCHER: These issues have been raised repeatedly at various levels of the government, and now they have reached the highest levels today.

Q: So they haven't had a conversation about it before this?

MR. FLEISCHER: Not to my knowledge. It has been raised repeatedly at other levels of the government.

Q: Following up, the Director General of the Russian company that produces the GPS-jamming devices suggests that any transfer that may have taken place would have come from potentially a third party, another country. Have you written that off?

And, as a follow-up, he also suggested that the Iraqis at this point may very well be able to produce this technology themselves, just through an old-fashioned knock-off program, technology knock-off program. Can you also address that?

MR. FLEISCHER: The issue is just as I described it. The President raised with President Putin our ongoing concerns about support would be provided for Iraqi military forces by Russian companies that produced the equipment.

Q: In a related follow-up, several sources have suggested that there was an uptick in activity by third party -- third parties, other nations that may be sympathetic to the Iraqis. Are we confident that there hasn't been other kinds of technology or weaponry that were transferred to the Iraqis in the closing days before the attack?

MR. FLEISCHER: I think it's fair to say that one of the issues the President has repeatedly talked about was, as he put it in the year 2000, that the sanctions which prohibited the Iraqis from receiving weapons like this were made of Swiss cheese. There were so many holes in the sanctions that Iraq was able to get ahold of equipment of a variety of natures that it was prohibited from having. Iraq also had oil wealth. It was diverting the oil-for-food program in an effort to acquire more information or more material that they were prohibited from having.

And this is one of the reasons that the President, when he reached the decision to authorize force, had watched the diplomacy fail, the sanctions fail, the smart sanctions fail, the use of pinpoint military operations fail. Iraq continued to defy the world, and it had help from several quarters in doing so.

[...]

Q: Ari, just for clarity sake, you said the GPS jammers are part of ongoing concerns. But does that mean that the night-vision goggles and the anti-tank -- that that transfer has ceased?

[...]

MR. FLEISCHER: I do not have any type of breakdown specifically on night vision versus GPS versus anti-tank guided missiles. We have concerns about all of them.

[...]

Q: You said that Presidents Bush and Putin discussed cooperation on humanitarian issues.

MR. FLEISCHER: Correct.

Q: But the Russians say that Putin urged the President to avoid, "a humanitarian catastrophe." Was this conversation perhaps a bit more contentious than you've indicated?

MR. FLEISCHER: No, but I think it's fair to say that President Bush and President Putin have a good personal relationship, and it's also marked by being a good, frank relationship. The two of them are comfortable saying directly to each other what they think. That's the mark of a strong relationship.

What I've noticed in diplomacy is oftentimes when people don't speak directly to each other about what they think, it's the mark of relations that are not as strong as they otherwise could be. So the two leaders do speak directly to each other, they speak frankly to each other. They hold each other in high personal regard. Nevertheless, there are some differences in our views about situations in Iraq. I've walked you through several of them today.

Q: So what's your frank appraisal of the Russians' concern about the U.S. provoking a humanitarian catastrophe?

MR. FLEISCHER: Well, I think the differences there are well-known and obvious. Russia did not think that military force should be used to disarm Saddam Hussein. Russia did not see the threat of Saddam Hussein the same way the United States, in the post 9/11 world, saw the threat from Saddam Hussein. So that's not surprising. But what is important is that, especially when it comes to humanitarian issues, that we are able to work together. That remains important.

[...]