Security concerns in Iraq and Saudi Arabia were discussed by the secretary of state with radio host Michael Reagan on June 18.

Powell acknowledged that, with regard to securing peace in the Middle East, "We've had a rough spot," and that the situation in Iraq has been difficult, but expressed hope that the turnover of sovereignty to Iraq on June 30 would advance the cause of peace by making it clear to both terrorists and the world community that any continued acts of violence within Iraq are "directed against a better future for Iraq."

The secretary called on all Iraq's neighbors to support that nation as it moves toward self-governance and the rule of law.

Powell also responded to questions about the reported killing of American Paul Johnson and its ramifications both for the Saudi government and for the security of U.S. citizens in the Middle East.

The secretary expressed confidence that the Saudis would "redouble their efforts and work even more closely with us ... go after these folks even more vigorously with no quarter given."

Powell said that he believed U.S. citizens currently working in the region "have a pretty good understanding of the risks they are taking in being there," and added that both the Saudi government and corporate employers are working to enhance area protection as well as protection for individuals. The secretary said he hoped "those kinds of measures will encourage people to stay and continue to do the job."

Reagan, son of the late President Ronald Reagan, also thanked the secretary for his condolences, and the two men shared memories of the Reagan administration and its accomplishments, particularly the relationship the late president forged with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
For Release
June 18, 2004
2004/694

Interview

Secretary of State Colin L. Powell
On The Michael Reagan Show

June 18, 2004
Washington, D.C.

(3:58 p.m. EDT)

MR. REAGAN: As I promised, a special guest would join me. From Washington, D.C., and a friend, Secretary of State Colin Powell. Welcome to the show, sir.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thanks, Mike. How are you today?

MR. REAGAN: I'm doing fine. I want to tell you something. I was so moved -- but, you know, this is not unlike you, because I've known you for a long time -- but my whole family was so moved when you kind of chased us down the steps coming out of the rotunda last week and gave me a kiss and said what you said to me and to my whole family. Your condolences meant a lot to all of us.

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I've known you all for so many years, and, you know, I so treasured your dad and worked so closely with him for two years as his National Security Advisor and Deputy National Security Advisor and was privileged to serve with him in historic times. And from really what was a low point in his administration, right after the Iran-Contra problem in 1986, and then to see over the next two years all the breakthroughs he achieved in foreign policy. And he left with a foreign policy rating that was in the 80's and a favorability rating that was in the 80's, because he essentially had left the country in great shape and he told the country the Cold War's about to end, and it did.

MR. REAGAN: And it certainly did. Let me ask you, what were your thoughts as you sat there, working for my father, Secretary of State under this President, and there behind my daughter, Ashley, my son Cameron, sat Mikhail Gorbachev.

SECRETARY POWELL: I knew President Gorbachev and still do, knew him very well, and went through two years with him, too. Some days, I felt like I was his National Security Advisor too, we spent so much time together.

But these two historic figures, Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev, worked together from different perspectives. Gorbachev was trying to save the Soviet Union. He was trying to save Communism, he was trying to reform it. And he was trying to open it up to modern influences in the 20th century, 21st century world. And Ronald Reagan knew that Communism couldn't be saved, but he was willing to let Gorbachev try, as long as they could work together. And Ronald Reagan was right and Gorbachev was wrong: Communism and the Soviet Union couldn't survive as it existed.

And when he went to Berlin and gave that famous speech, "Mr. Gorbachev, come here, tear down this wall," he didn't just mean a physical wall. He meant a political wall, a mental wall, a cultural wall, a wall that separated ideas. And once our ideas went behind that wall, it was all over for Communism and Ronald Reagan knew it.

MR. REAGAN: It certainly was, but to see him there at the funeral, there at the National Cathedral, meant a whole lot to a lot of people, especially our family, and to see a person who was an enemy, referred to as the Evil Empire; that was what my father was, a person who reached out and made friends of his enemies.

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, you know, you don't make friends of your friends. You make friends of your enemies. You try to convert your friends -- your enemies into friends and your adversaries into advocates. And your father was terrific at it.

He never had hatred in his heart for anyone, I don't think. He never came into the office any day that I worked for him mad about something or mad at someone. It was always with a spirit of, what can we do today to help the American people? What can we do today to help the world? And I'm going to approach today just like I did yesterday, and that is with a spirit of optimism and with a firm belief in the values that our country stands for and we want to share with others.

And perhaps his greatest trait was self-confidence. He knew who he was and what he was, and therefore, he didn't need reaffirmation from people or the media or anyone else every day. He knew who he was.

MR. REAGAN: Are we making friends with the Middle East right now?

SECRETARY POWELL: I think we will. We've had a rough spot. The Middle East countries would like to see us do more on the Middle East peace process and we're trying to do more. And the situation in Iraq has been difficult for us.

But I hope that when the 1st of July comes and the new Iraqi interim government takes over and people of the world see that, you know, Saddam Hussein is gone and he's not coming back and look at the government that is coming in, people who are committed to democracy -- they have a temporary law that will lead to a constitution that preserves individual rights, that puts the military under civilian control, that has an independent judiciary that respects the majority or protects the rights and equity, political equity, of the minority -- people are going to say, that's pretty good.

And these terrorists and these awful people that are setting off bombs now will be setting off bombs not directed against the American occupation, but directed against a better future for Iraq. And I hope that all of Iraq's neighbors and the people in the Middle East will say, you know, that's not right. And we've got to support the Iraqis.

MR. REAGAN: There are people, Mr. Secretary, who would say, with the beheading now of Mr. Johnson, that this is more aimed at the Saudis and their hierarchy, in trying to undermine their leadership and bring down their leadership than anything else. Is there any truth to that?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, they certainly are doing it to strike at us, but also to strike at the Saudi regime. And the Saudi leaders -- and I just spoke to the Foreign Minister of Saudi Arabia less than 10 minutes ago, and he was expressing his condolences over the death of Mr. Johnson -- the Saudi leaders know what they're up against. They know that they have to redouble their efforts to fight terrorism, to fight the terrorism that is within their borders, but also to join the worldwide campaign against terrorism. And we have been encouraging them and they have been responding in such efforts as cutting off the funding to charitable organizations that have a terrorist link to them.

And so I think we will see the Saudis now, knowing the nature of this threat, redouble their efforts and work even more closely with us and go after these folks even more vigorously with no quarter given.

MR. REAGAN: But there is a huge civilian population that goes into Saudi, works there like Paul Johnson, coming from the United States and other places. What will this do to that population that goes there to work or that's working there now? Will it undermine that and send them home? And they are people that are needed by the Saudi Government.

SECRETARY POWELL: It is certainly a concern of ours, but the people who are there have a pretty good understanding of the risks that they are taking in being there. And they tend to be sort of wildcatting kinds of folks in the oil industry. And I think there will do more to protect themselves, both to have area protection -- I know the Saudis are going to do a lot more to have area protection -- and then individual protection. And I have spoken to some of the CEOs, I spoke to the chairman of Mr. Johnson's company the other day, and I know that the companies will be doing more to protect their citizens -- and their employees, I should say.

And so I hope that between these additional efforts and the passive measures also being taken to know who's inside the kingdom, who's sneaking in, who's coming in, those kinds of measures will encourage people to stay and continue to do the job.

If they leave, then the terrorists have won. And I don't think either the Saudis, the Americans, or these brave folks who work in Saudi Arabia want the terrorists to win.

MR. REAGAN: Is part of the problem of not being able to find the Johnsons when they are kidnapped because of the lack human intel that we have on the ground, that we had under, say, Bill Casey?

SECRETARY POWELL: I don't know that I can say that. It's, you know, it's difficult to find somebody who is suddenly swept off the streets somewhere, kidnapped and taken away. And if the kidnappers do not give you some signal, some sign, something that is actionable, it is not impossible to keep somebody hidden, and the best intelligence system might not be able to find it.

Intelligence also tends to require a degree of time to build up a body of evidence so that you can, you know, find out where somebody is. Sometimes it works quickly, sometimes not. Last week, of course, or two weeks ago, I guess it was now, we had a break and got some good intelligence where we were able to rescue the Italians who had been kidnapped and do it safely. But it doesn't always work out that way. Sometimes, unfortunately, it works out as it has for Mr. Johnson.

MR. REAGAN: There is some talk that, in fact, Mr. Johnson was killed long before that 72-hour period was up. Do you know anything about that?

SECRETARY POWELL: No, I have no way of knowing that. This is all breaking news, Mike, and we just got confirmation that he actually is dead. And so I can't tell you when he was killed.

MR. REAGAN: Does somebody contact the family? Does the State Department contact --

SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, we have been in --

MR. REAGAN: -- you talked to them.

SECRETARY POWELL: We have been in constant touch with the families since the beginning of this. We have an office of Consular Affairs that follows such matters, and are immediately in contact through our embassy with family members in Saudi Arabia and with the family members here in the United States.

MR. REAGAN: Well, I tell you, the job you do is not, certainly, an easy one. And I certainly appreciate your friendship and the fact that you're the Secretary of State.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you very much, Mike. And once again, my condolences to you, to Nancy, and all the members of the family. And I consider myself part of that family, Mike.

MR. REAGAN: You are part of that family. My best to your lovely bride.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you, Mike. Bye.

MR. REAGAN: Bye-bye, friend.