Secretary of State Colin Powell says he will use his time at a conference in Jordan May 15 and 16 to talk with Arab leaders about the abuse of detainees in Abu Ghraib prison as well as discuss their views on Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to withdraw from the Gaza Strip.

Powell, interviewed on National Public Radio May 10, said Arab leaders are outraged by the treatment of some Iraqi detainees at the prison that was captured in photographs and, as a result, has caused a serious backlash. "All of them have made it clear that this is having a very negative impact in their countries. They're disappointed in us. We are disappointed in us," Powell said.

"But, you know," he added, "we also know how to solve problems. We know how to take care of problems once they've been discovered. This is a serious problem. It's being addressed. Multiple investigations are under way ... justice will be served and people will be held to account."

Powell said he looks forward to meeting with the Arab leaders and attempting to "put this in some context and perspective, and to convey to them what we are doing to help the Iraqi people."

The secretary emphasized that with the return to Iraqi sovereignty July 1, neither the State Department nor incoming U.S. Ambassador to Iraq John Negroponte will be taking on the role of Ambassador Paul Bremer, who heads the Coalition Provisional Authority.

"The interim Iraqi government will be taking over from Ambassador Bremer. They will become the new government," he said. "And when Ambassador Bremer leaves and the Coalition Provisional Authority shuts down, then we will have a normal embassy under the supervision of Ambassador Negroponte."

The interim government, being put together under the oversight of U.N. Special Envoy Lakhdar Brahimi, "will have real authority, real power," Powell said. The coalition military forces that remain after the turnover will be there "to give this new government the kind of security it needs in order to begin functioning," he added.

Powell said the Sharon proposal to withdraw from Gaza is a "tremendous opportunity" to move toward a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict, a solution to which the United States remains committed.

In expressing his support for the proposal, President Bush "pointed out some realities with respect to right of return and with respect to the fact that there will have to be some adjustment to the armistice line. Everybody has known that. What got all of the attention was the president pointed it out rather explicitly." Powell said.

People are now, however, beginning to see the opportunity to "actually remove settlements. Not talk about removing settlements, but actually removing settlers from settlements and converting the settlement property into assets that can be used by the Palestinian people in Gaza," he added. It will ultimately be up to the Palestinians and the Israelis to decide "what the new line might look like and all other issues that are called final status issues," he said.

Powell said the United States was lending its "good offices" to both sides and had not prejudged any outcome. "We can bring them together. We can help them. We can shape ideas," he said. "But at the end of the day, if you're going to have peace between these two states ... they must agree on these final status issues and what the terms of that peace will be."

U.S. Department Of State
Office Of The Spokesman
May 11, 2004
Interview
Secretary of State Colin L. Powell
With Juan Williams of National Public Radio's Morning Edition
May 10, 2004
Washington, D.C.
(2:30 p.m. EDT)

MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Secretary, this morning, you went to the Pentagon with the President. Did you see any indication that the scandal over the photographs of the mistreatment of prisoners in Iraq is going to get worse?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, let me say that at the briefing we had at the Pentagon earlier today with Secretary Rumsfeld and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and by video with General Abizaid and General Sanchez, was a good briefing. We spent most of our time reviewing the situation in the region. Security has improved somewhat in recent weeks from where it was in April. We're making some progress there. Reconstruction is starting to pick up again.

But we also did talk about the prison scandal, and it is a problem for us. And I think all of us have demonstrated how big a problem it is. It's a disaster for us to be seen conducting these kinds of terrible acts against people who we were responsible for. We were responsible for their care. But, at the same time, we have to put it in context, because tens upon tens of thousands of our young men and women over in Iraq and in Afghanistan and elsewhere around the world are building and helping people to a better life and administering inoculations to youngsters and building sewer systems and doing all kinds of great work. And it's just a shame that the vividness of these pictures and the heinous nature of these acts have given us such a black eye.

But I think we'll explain how these individuals will be brought to justice. Responsibility will be set throughout the chain of command. And we'll get on with the task of rebuilding Iraq and putting in place a democracy and transferring responsibility to a sovereign government on the first of July, which is what we spent most of our time talking about this morning.

Q: Mr. Secretary, but is it going to get worse? Do you see any evidence? Do you hear any --

A: As Secretary Rumsfeld has said, there may be more -- more things coming out, additional pictures. You saw one this morning in the newspapers that came out of The New Yorker article over the weekend. And so it could get worse before it gets better, but it will get better. I just don't know what tomorrow will bring, and that's the only thing I can say about it. We don't know what tomorrow will bring. But this is not over yet.

Q: Have you spoken with President Bush about whether top officials at the Pentagon should step down, for example, Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers?

A: No, this is not anything we're talking about. This is a difficult situation for the leaders of the Pentagon, but they are working hard. Secretary Rumsfeld, General Myers, the Chiefs and their assistants are occupied on several fronts: we've got troops fighting in Iraq; we've got peacekeeping efforts going on in Afghanistan, in Haiti, in the Balkans and elsewhere. And so this is the time to let the process run its course. Let's see what we really know about all of this -- who is responsible for what -- and not speculate on changes of the kind you've seen speculated about all over the television. Secretary Rumsfeld's got a tough job. He's doing it very, very well, and let him get on with the investigations and let's see where they take us.

Q: International Red Cross President Jacob Kellenberger said he met with you, as well as National Security Advisor Rice and Deputy Defense Secretary Wolfowitz, about the prison abuse situation as far back as January. Is that true?

A: Yes. We meet with Mr. Kellenberger every time he comes to town. We think very highly of the International Committee for the Red Cross. And as you know, Juan, the way they work is when they do their inquiries and investigations, they take what they find directly to the command involved or to the organization involved in the field, and then subsequently they will brief up the chain. And so Mr. Kellenberger would brief me on these matters when he was in town. And when he did brief, we would discuss these matters within the interagency process, and I think the Pentagon is now looking at all of the information that the ICRC has provided to us over the last year or so to see which findings they presented we did respond to and which ones have not been responded to yet. Mr. Kellenberger, when I spoke to him last week on the telephone, he was encouraging us to put out what we did correct and also take note of what has yet to be corrected.

Q: Given what we've seen in terms of these photos from Iraq, are we to suspect that there's worse taking place at Guantanamo Bay?

A: No, I wouldn't say that at all. Guantanamo Bay has been inspected on a regular basis. The media has been there. Many of the countries that have detainees at Guantanamo have been there to visit their detainees. There have been complaints filed from time to time, and they have been acted on promptly. And so I would not expect anything like what we saw in Iraq to have taken place in Guantanamo or any of our other facilities.

What we saw at Abu Ghraib so far, to me anyway, looks like a single, isolated set of events at that particular facility. And what we have to do is make sure we know all about what happened at that particular facility over the period of time in question, and, as Secretary Rumsfeld told the President this morning, find out everything we can about it and then take corrective action and do whatever is appropriate with respect to punishment.

Q: Last week, you met with a group of congressmen and women and told them that you weren't aware of any requests upcoming for supplemental funding for the war in Iraq, and then the very next day there was that $25 billion request.

Is that evidence of some lack of communication between State and the Pentagon?

A: Not at all, Juan. It wasn't the very next day. It was within 20 minutes after I left the Black Caucus my staff called to let me know that a military-only supplemental was going to be sent up. And it was military-only, it didn't involve any of the State Department's programs and it didn't involve the programs of any other cabinet officer. And so I was advised as it was going up. So were the other members of the cabinet. It had nothing to do with State Department. And my conversations with the Black Caucus that day dealt with peacekeeping operations and the fact that I would probably need some additional funding for peacekeeping operations, but there was not yet a supplemental that I could put those requests in on. And that still remains the case. It was strictly a military-only supplemental and therefore only involved one department, the Defense Department.

Q: In terms of diplomatic efforts -- you're our lead diplomat -- what kind of backlash are you seeing around the world in response to these pictures, especially from Arab diplomats?

A: They're outraged and there's a serious backlash. They are outraged. We have presented ourselves as a value-based country -- and we are. And so when they see this kind of activity taking place -- this horrible, horrible series of pictures that we've witnessed -- it causes a tremendous response out in the region. I hope that we'll be able to persuade all of our friends, however, that this does not reflect the America that they know, this is not the reflect -- it does not reflect the America that is. This is not consistent with our values. It's not consistent with the way we do our business or what we expect of our soldiers. I think Americans are as outraged by these pictures as are our Arab friends. And I'm going to be going to the Middle East this weekend to attend a conference in Jordan, where I'll have a chance to talk with many, many Arab leaders and try to put this in some context and perspective, and to convey to them what we are doing to help the Iraqi people. And I am looking forward to the opportunity to do just that.

Q: Mr. Secretary, specifically, though, who has called you and what have they said, specifically? If you could name names, and which countries, I'd appreciate it.

A: Well, I would not want to go down the list of who I've spoken to, but I have spoken to the Saudis. I've spoken to the Jordanians. King Abdullah was here the other day. I've been in touch with a variety of ministers. I'm meeting a minister this afternoon.

And all of them have made it clear that this is having a very negative impact in their countries. They're disappointed in us. We are disappointed in us. But, you know, we also know how to solve problems. We know how to take care of problems once they've been discovered. This is a serious problem. It's being addressed. Multiple investigations are underway. Secretary Rumsfeld testified before the Congress with General Myers on Friday. I expect he'll be up again before the Congress. The general who did the investigation, General Taguba, is up before the Congress tomorrow. So I think what we have to show our friends in the Arab world, and show the American people, and show the men and women of the Armed Forces is that when misbehavior such as this occurs, which is so inconsistent with our values system, with our moral standards and with what is expected of our men and women in uniform, justice will be served and people will be held to account. If we do that, and if we do that promptly and do it in a way that people can see that it is fair justice being administered, then we can more quickly get this terrible, terrible set of pictures and this terrible incident behind us.

Q: Mr. Secretary, let's talk about the process in the Middle East. The State Department is going to take over on June 30th from Ambassador Paul Bremer. Already, UN Ambassador Brahimi is on the ground. Are you in touch with him and do you know specifically which Iraqis are going to be in power come June 30th?

A: We are very much in touch with Ambassador Brahimi and with Secretary General Kofi Annan, who Ambassador Brahimi works for. We have not yet identified specific Iraqis who will be taking over as president, deputy presidents and prime ministers -- and prime minister. It's a little premature to speculate on names, but names are being assembled.

One point on what you said, though, Juan. We are not going to be taking over for Ambassador Bremer. Ambassador Negroponte is not going to be taking over the role of Ambassador Bremer. The interim Iraqi government will be taking over from Ambassador Bremer. They will become the new government. And when Ambassador Bremer leaves and the Coalition Provisional Authority shuts down, then we will have a normal embassy under the supervision of Ambassador Negroponte. It's important to make that point so people understand that we truly are looking forward to returning sovereignty to the Iraqi people through this interim government. And this interim government will have real authority, real power, but nevertheless, you know, we have a great deal of money to spend there and we'll have some control over that, and we will have the military force there to give this new government the kind of security it needs in order to begin functioning. And it's an important distinction that we are turning sovereignty from Ambassador Bremer back to the Iraqi people in the form of this interim government that Ambassador Brahimi is pulling together now.

Q: Mr. Secretary, does the Administration still support Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to withdraw from the Gaza Strip?

A: Yes, we think it's a very innovative idea. He ran into some problems with his own party, the Likud Party, and he is studying how to move forward. But he is still committed to a Gaza withdrawal and so are we.

It was very controversial when we announced our support of this idea, but we have reinforced all of our friends since then that the United States remains committed to a two-state solution, Israel and Palestine, and the final status issues with respect to those two states have to be resolved by the two parties, the Palestinians and the Israelis, in negotiations with each other -- not anything imposed by the United States or the outside world. We are there to help them, but those final status issues have to be resolved between the parties. The President also pointed out some realities with respect to right of return and with respect to the fact that there will have to be some adjustment to the armistice line. Everybody has known that. What got all of the attention was the President pointed it out rather explicitly. And I think people have kind of gotten over that and are starting to look now at the opportunity to actually remove settlements. Not talk about removing settlements, but actually removing settlers from settlements and converting the settlement property into assets that can be used by the Palestinian people in Gaza. This is a tremendous opportunity, one that we don't want to lose.

Q: Well, how will that be worked out at your meeting in Jordan?

A: Well, we had a good meeting last week of the group called the Quartet. That's the United States, the United Nations, the Russian Federation and the European Union, the international group that monitors this. My meeting in Jordan this weekend will give me an opportunity to discuss with Arab leaders our view of this proposal by Mr. Sharon and let us hear from them as well. I don't expect any particular breakthrough or movement this weekend because Mr. Sharon is still reviewing the plan to see how he can move it forward through the Israeli Government. I do take note of the fact, though, that, in polling, the majority of Israelis want to see this plan moved forward, even though he had trouble within his own Likud Party, because the majority of Israelis understand that it is time to move out of some of these settlements and begin to get back down a road to peace, as laid out in what is called the roadmap.

Q: Well, did you suffer any damage when it appeared that the President was giving a clear bill to whatever Mr. Sharon wanted to do unilaterally without negotiating with the Palestinians?

A: There was an initial reaction until people read all of the President's statement. And in the President's statement, he made it clear that final status issues have to be decided between the parties, we are not prejudging any outcome, and it is up to the parties ultimately to decide what the new line might look like and all other issues that are called final status issues. And I think once people saw that, and when the President had a chance to explain it, and the rest of us had a chance to get out and explain it, and when he received King Abdullah here last week and he and King Abdullah of Jordan were able to give a joint press conference out in the Rose Garden, I think people settled down a little bit and now they want to hear more about it. And now we're anxious to see what Mr. Sharon plans to do next to get approval within his government for his plan.

Q: But in no way did the U.S. therefore abdicate its ability to be an independent arbiter between the Israelis and the Palestinians as a result of the President's actions?

A: Right. We lend our good offices to both sides. And that's exactly what it means when you say mutual agreement between the parties means mutual agreement between the parties. We can bring them together. We can help them. We can shape ideas. But at the end of the day, if you're going to have peace between these two states, which is what we're working for, they must agree on all these final status issues and what the terms of that peace will be.

Q: Secretary of State Colin Powell, thank you so much for joining us.

A: Thank you, Juan.