Following is a transcript of Secretary Powell's July 18 interview with Diane Rehm:

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman

For Immediate Release
July 18, 2002

INTERVIEW

Secretary Of State Colin L. Powell
On the Diane Rehm Show

July 18, 2002

(Aired 10:10 a.m. EDT)

MS. REHM: Thanks for joining us. I'm Diane Rehm, and joining me now from the State Department, Secretary of State Colin Powell. Our time is limited this morning. Secretary Powell has a full schedule of meetings today. Later in the hour, a panel of journalists who have covered the State Department will join us to respond to your comments and questions.

Secretary Powell, welcome to the Diane Rehm Show.

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, thank you, Diane. It's good to be back on the show.

REHM: Thank you. Considering the renewed violence in Israel, the most recent attack on civilians by suicide bombers, what do you believe is the most realistic path to peace in the Middle East, Mr. Secretary?

POWELL: First, I think we have to keep communicating the message to the people in the region that this kind of terrorist attack not only kills innocent Israeli citizens, it also is destroying the dream of the Palestinian people for their own state, and it must be condemned and everyone must work together to stop it. People who are conducting these acts have no interest in the welfare of the Palestinian people; they are making it harder for all of us to help the Palestinian people.

Second, it just should encourage us all to redouble our efforts to find a way forward. And as you know, President Bush and his administration are working hard to do that. A way forward that includes a security track. We have the get the security situation under control, reform and reconstruct the Palestinian security authority and get them to working with Israeli authorities again so that we can get the kind of security cooperation that was keeping this kind of violence in check a few years back.

REHM: How --

POWELL: Secondly, if I may.

REHM: Sure.

POWELL: Secondly, the second track has to be humanitarian assistance. It has to include economic opening so that Palestinians can get to work and start to put hope back in their lives. And third, there has to be a political track. The President has laid out a plan in his 24 June speech which moves us forward on all three of these tracks.

REHM: There have been reports this week about a plan that would allow Mr. Arafat to remain as president, but then to have a prime minister in place to deal with negotiations with Israel and the United States. Wouldn't Mr. Arafat still be calling the shots, and isn't this just a ruse to get around dealing directly with Mr. Arafat?

POWELL: Well, with respect to the United States, we don't need a ruse. We have made it clear, the President has made it clear and I've made it clear, that we are unable to deal with Chairman Arafat. We recognize that the Palestinian people still look to him as a leader, but he hasn't performed in that role.

So what we are anxious to do is to deal with other Palestinian leaders who can act with authority, with responsibility, with transparent action that we can see, and who are empowered to act. And if those individuals are empowered by the Palestinian community, we will work with them. There is no specific plan with respect to Chairman Arafat. It's up to the Palestinian people to decide that. But after a great deal of experience working with Chairman Arafat, it became clear to us that he was not acting in a way that would help us find a solution.

Now, the idea of a prime minister has been bandied about a bit. It is not a plan that we have presented. We'll see how this develops. There are other Palestinian leaders who now seem to be coming to the fore and acting with some authority, and we are prepared to work with them, as are the Israelis. As you've noticed, Foreign Minister Peres, with Prime Minister Sharon's blessing, has been in touch with some of these other leaders.

REHM: Can you tell us who these other leaders are?

POWELL: I don't want to designate them yet because it's up to others to do so. But I would take note of the fact that Foreign Minister Shimon Peres has been dealing with the new Finance Minister, and he is planning meetings with the Minister of Interior. Those meetings have been delayed, but those are certainly two individuals that seem to be not only asserting authority and trying to work on the transformation, but seem to be acting with authority. And so those are two that perhaps might start to fill the role that I think is badly needed to be filled.

REHM: Now, haven't both those officials been appointed by Mr. Arafat?

POWELL: Yes.

REHM: So what I'm wondering is what strategy is the U.S. going to take to help foster new leadership, and wouldn't any new leader likely come from those already appointed by Mr. Arafat or who are members of Hamas?

POWELL: We would never deal with people from Hamas, and if that's who's offered up, it will not be a way forward. There are individuals that have indicated -- who are starting to identify themselves -- and we've talked to them -- who, whatever the nature of their appointment, if they are acting with authority and if they are acting in a way that is responsible and gives us something to work with, then we will work with them.

And as you know, we're working with the Arab leaders who are applying similar pressure on the Palestinian leadership to come forward with these kinds of leaders. People are working with them on a new constitution, on how to hold elections, on how to reform their security apparatus.

So it is not simply a question of the United States and the international community standing back and doing nothing while we wait for a total change in leadership to take place; we are trying to identify those leaders who recognize that what they have been doing in the recent past has not moved them closer to their vision of a Palestinian state.

REHM: Secretary Powell, this morning I gather you're meeting with Foreign Ministers of Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Those countries have asked the U.S. to place more demands on Israel. What will you be talking with them about today?

POWELL: We'll be talking with them about transformation within the Palestinian Authority, how we can do a better job on the security and some of the ideas that we have put forward by Director Tenet that will reorganize the Palestinian security services. We'll be talking to them about humanitarian aid and we will be talking, no doubt, about what the President has asked the Israeli side to be prepared to do with respect to ending the occupation, ending settlement activity, and how to get to a final solution.

We'll also talk about more immediate issues about how to open up the Palestinian community so that humanitarian workers can get in. We have a humanitarian disaster right in front of us with respect to malnourished children, people not able to get to hospitals. And it was interesting that on Monday when we were meeting in New York, just before our meeting with the Quartet, as they are called, and including Secretary General Kofi Annan, Mr. Sharon, Prime Minister Sharon, called Secretary General Annan and asked for his help in finding a way forward for the international community to help Palestinians. So I'm sure we'll talk about that as well.

REHM: All right, let's turn to the subject of Iraq. There's been a great deal of discussion within the administration, I gather, about removing Saddam Hussein from power and invading Iraq. Most of our allies have been publicly averse to any kind of action against Iraq by the U.S. Is it likely the U.S. would have to proceed alone?

POWELL: We're in consultation with our friends, not about a specific military plan. We're in consultation with them about the danger that the Iraqi regime presents to them and to the world, and especially to the region. This is a regime that is developing weapons of mass destruction. They have been doing it for years. They have not stopped, notwithstanding the UN instructions and resolutions calling on them to stop. They will not allow inspectors back in to see what they have been doing.

And so we're making the case to our friends, and it's a case that is increasingly hard to deny, that this regime is a real and present danger to the world, and to the region especially; and that we believe it is in the best interest of the world and the region and the Iraqi people for the regime to be changed.

Now, how that change comes about, whether it's through political or diplomatic means, or through internal action within Iraq or outside action by those who believe that regime change is necessary and are prepared to use military action, remains to be seen. The President does not have on his desk a military plan for action, nor has he made any decisions, notwithstanding all the speculation. Obviously we're looking at options.

REHM: What about congressional support? How much do you believe there is within the Congress for removal of Saddam Hussein by any of the means you describe?

POWELL: There's considerable support in the Congress for the President's policy. And as you've noticed in recent press reporting, Congress wants to hear more about it. They believe that in order to support the administration we should spend more time consulting with them, and I'm sure we will be doing that in the days ahead.

REHM: Mr. Secretary, a more philosophical question in regard to Iraq: What right does the U.S. have to remove a leader from power whose people, at least publicly, seem to support him?

POWELL: We have a right to defend ourselves and defend our friends from the kinds of weapons that he is developing that could cause thousands upon thousands of casualties. He has shown previously that he would use such weapons against his neighbors and against his friends. And what we have to do is persuade the international community that this is a real and present danger requiring political, diplomatic and perhaps military action to resolve.

REHM: And speaking of clear and present danger, I understand you're off to India and Pakistan next week.

POWELL: Yes, next week I'll be traveling to India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Thailand, Brunei and the Philippines.

REHM: What's your concern as far as India and Pakistan are concerned? What will you be saying to them?

POWELL: We will certainly have discussions, I'm sure, in both India and Pakistan with respect to the current situation dealing with infiltration across the line of control and the mobilization that both sides undertook in response to that. But I also want to talk to the Indians and Pakistanis about the broader U.S. agenda with respect to each of those countries. We have more important issues to work with than just the current crisis, and I want to make sure they understand that we're working hard to resolve the current tension in the region, but I also want to build on U.S.-Indian relations and U.S.-Pakistani relations, and not have the world just see this relationship in terms of the current crisis.

REHM: And lastly, Homeland Security. I must say, coordination sounds like a good idea, but I can't help think of the bureaucratic nightmare this could turn into. What are your uppermost concerns for the role of the State Department in this reorganization?

POWELL: Well, we're very pleased with the plan that the President and Governor Ridge have put forward, and I worked very closely with Governor Ridge on the plan, and the arrangement with the State Department is a good one.

Governor Ridge will give us instructions and guidance as to what rules we should follow concerning who should be allowed into the country. And we are integrating all of our databases now -- FBI, CIA, State Department, elsewhere -- so that we are able to check those coming into the United States against all of the intelligence and law enforcement databases.

But it will still remain the responsibility of the State Department, through our consular offices around the world, to receive the visa applications, bounce it against these new databases, and then through interviews make a judgment as to who should be given a visa to come into the country. State will continue to do that, but under the policy direction of the Department of Homeland Security, and I think that's the way it should work.

REHM: Secretary of State Colin Powell, thanks so much for joining us, sir.

POWELL: Thank you, Diane. And thank you for understanding that I had to cut this a little bit short, but I'm sure your friends there today will more than adequately fill the time.

REHM: Indeed. Thank you.

(end transcript)