GUESTS:

Theresa Loar, Director, President's Interagency Council

on Women (PICW)

Carol Bellamy, Executive Director,

United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF)

Noeleen Heyzer, Executive Director,

United Nations Development Fund for Women (UNIFEM)

TOPIC:

ARIAT Meeting: Asia Regional Initiative Against

Trafficking in Women and Children

POST: Manila

HOST: Judlyne Lilly

DATE: March 28, 2000

MS. LILLY: Hello from Washington, and welcome to a special edition of Worldnet "Dialogue." I am your host, Judlyne Lilly.

The Asian Regional Initiative Against Trafficking in women and children, or ARIAT Meeting, is underway from today through March 31st. Delegates are attempting to develop a regional action plan to combat trafficking through prevention, protection, and reintegration of victims and the prosecution of traffickers.

We are honored to join ARIAT delegates live at Manila's Heritage Hotel. We would also like to extend a special greeting to our viewers in Ulaanbaatar, especially M. P. Garal, one of the distinguished guests.

Before we begin the panel discussion, we have a special message from U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Good morning, and mabuhay. On behalf of President and Mrs. Clinton, I am delighted to greet you all on the opening day of the ARIAT meeting. I am in Washington, but my thoughts are with you in Manila, for trafficking in human beings is an urgent, increasing and devastating problem which we must recognize clearly and address firmly.

As a member of the Asia Pacific community, the United States is proud to be co-hosting this regional meeting with our good friends from the government of the Philippines. The challenge we face is daunting. Trafficking is one of the fastest growing criminal enterprises in the world. To one degree or another, it affects virtually every nation, including my own. Tens of thousands of people are trafficked into the United States annually. Hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings, mostly women and children, are bought and sold each year in Asia. This cynical and shameless trade distorts our economy, degrades our society, endangers our neighborhoods, and robs many of our citizens of their dreams, their dignity, and often of their very lives.

Every time a child is snatched from the street, or a young woman lured with a small promise, or a man coerced by desperation into a life of virtual slavery, we are all diminished in a way we must not tolerate any more. That's why this ARIAT meeting is not just another international conference; it's a call to action. ARIAT can raise awareness so that no one anywhere can ever again use ignorance as an excuse for indifference or lack of information as a rationale for complacency.

ARIAT can lay out a concrete plan of action to educate the public, assist the victims, protect the vulnerable, and apprehend and prosecute the perpetrators. But to succeed we must work and move forward together on all fronts. I am proud that with the leadership from the president and the first lady the United States has made the battle against trafficking a diplomatic and law enforcement priority.

Around the globe we are working with partners such as the government of the Philippines to share information, coordinate legal action, and find and close criminal networks. But this battle has only begun, and it must be waged by more than governments alone. And that's why ARIAT includes representatives of NGOs, the private sector, and multilateral organizations in addition to official delegates. I congratulate you all. Each of you has an important role to play in developing strategies for prevention, protection, prosecution and reintegration. And I am confident that you will make ARIAT a real turning point in our regional and global struggle against trafficking. Because do not doubt, if we truly are together we can win. We can end trafficking in human beings. And what a gift to the future that would be. In closing, I want very much to thank Secretary Siazon and his entire foreign affairs team for their leadership in organizing and hosting this vital conference. I look forward eagerly to a full report on the outcome of your efforts. Salamat po.

MS. LILLY: And now we turn to our distinguished Washington panelists. Theresa Loar is director of the President's Interagency Council on Women; Carol Bellamy is executive director of the United Nations Children's Fund, or UNICEF; and also with us today is Dr. Noeleen Heyzer, executive director of the United Nations Development Fund for Women, or UNIFEM. Thank you for joining us.

And now we turn to Philippine Undersecretary for International Economic Relations, Ambassador Rosario Manalo, and our participants in Manila. Your first question or comment please?

AMBASSADOR MANALO: Good morning lovely people from the other side of the globe. Thank you very much, Madam Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, for your very inspiring remarks. May we thank through you the president of the United States and the first lady for the great concern they have put into these egregious human rights violations, the trafficking in women and children.

May I now please introduce this side of the panel? To my right, I have Dr. Saisuree Chutikul, who represents Southeast Asia; and to my left I have Ms. Inksetseg of Mongolia, who will represent Northeast Asia.

Now, permit me to give a little genesis of ARIAT. I understand that way back in 1994 the Philippines tabled a resolution at the United Nations General Assembly inviting the attention of the world to these egregious human rights violations, trafficking in women and innocent children. The resolution called for international cooperation to curb, if not to eradicate completely this transnational crime.

This resolution was received with great enthusiasm by members of the U.N., which promptly adopted it without a vote. It -- (inaudible) -- introduced a resolution to the Commission on the Status of Women, and the Commission of Human Rights in Geneva, to ensure a system-wide coverage of the issue.

Today the Commission on Crime Prevention and Criminal Justice in Vienna has included trafficking in its address of organized transnational crime.

Last July, in the post-ministerial dialogue between ASEAN and the United States, an understanding was reached to cooperate on social issues. And last November the Philippines and the United States finally agreed to co-host an informal, unstructured meeting of countries in the Asia Pacific region, with a view to drafting a workable regional plan of action to stamp out the trafficking of human beings in this region, particularly trafficking in women and children. Today is the start of that meeting, and we are all determined here to achieve these objectives.

First, a practical, doable regional plan of action against trafficking. And subsequently we hope that national plans of action will be adopted to carry out the regional plan.

We hope with the participation of 21 countries of the region, 19 international organizations, and various members of NGOs, we would be able to come to the objectives we have in these workshops.

After this, may I now please be permitted to pose the first question to the panel in Washington? And this is particularly directed to Carol Bellamy and to Noeleen, UNICEF and UNIFEM. Could you please explain to us what are the policies now that you envision, policy programs and projections, to help us combat trafficking in the region?

MS. BELLAMY: Well, let me start. I would just remind everybody that the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which has been ratified by all but two countries in the world -- unfortunately one of them my own country -- but, nevertheless, 191 countries -- has explicit provisions, for example, in Article 9, in Article 11, in Article 35, that specifically deal with issues such as separating children from their families, that deal with the charge to governments to establish policies to assure that this kind of trafficking doesn't take place. So I would start first with the fact that there is indeed in these 191 countries a legal obligation to respond to the challenge of trafficking, certainly when it comes to children. And we are obviously talking about children and adults. But in many cases the adults that we are talking about are still virtually children. Many of the women that we call women are still children. So I would start there. Those are policies -- those are concrete policies where there is actually even a legal obligation.

I'll turn it over to Noeleen, although before doing that I would also say that there has to be greater public awareness. The conspiracy of silence or the victimization of the victim, which is to suggest that those who are involved in it are themselves the ones who are to blame, I think removes us from the fact that we are really talking about large-scale business, very unsavory individuals and organizations involved in this, and there has to really be an attempt to assure that there is adequate prosecution and criminalization. Noeleen?

DR. HEYZER: If we look at the kind of policies that are necessary to end the issue of trafficking, we need to understand what are the causes that have led to the trafficking of women and children, what kind of mechanisms are being used to be engaged in this kind of trafficking across the borders and across countries; and, finally, also the fact that it is a big business, and it is a criminal network. So how do we attack them?

What are the root causes? The root causes actually rest very much in terms of the vulnerabilities of people and communities, the vulnerabilities because of the economic situation, because of poverty, because of what is happening to the economic gaps in communities, high growth countries versus low growth countries; and also, at the same time, the fact that many of our communities are breaking down because of the social fabric, and therefore there is a social kind of vulnerability. At the same time, that alone is not enough. So in other words, besides looking at what we need to do with our economic policies, we need also to address the issue of gender power, because the issue of trafficking rests very much in terms of the gender hierarchy. It is only when vulnerabilities and gender hierarchies in terms of gender power come into being that we have the kind of trafficking which we see, and therefore the need of policies to increase the status of women, to increase their -- (inaudible) -- so that women do have access to the kind of decision-making and establish, so that there is value in the girl child, there is value in women's life and in women's work. But that is extremely important.

But equally important is to deal with the issue of criminality and the fact that it is a transnational business, a business that is worth something like $7 billion. And therefore you have to dismantle that kind of mechanism. And it reaches down all the way to the village. In other words, it is a business where everybody profits.

Q. Thank you very much. May I now invite Madam Saisuree of Thailand.

Q. Thank you, Undersecretary Manalo. Hello, Theresa, Carol and Noeleen and Judlyne. First of all, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the U.S. government in initiating this important meeting in the Asia Pacific region, and also to thank the Philippine government for co-hosting the ARIAT.

We are pleased to see increased attention being given to the issue of trafficking. Here at our meeting we, the participants, have the intention of improved networking globally and regionally against trafficking in women and children. Networking means sharing of information, cooperation, collaboration and coordination.

My question is this: While we appreciate very much the assistance financially, materially and technically, from many governments, U.N. agencies and international organizations, we are wondering whether you are also "networking," quote/unquote, among yourselves so as to prevent possible confusion and competition as well as competing programs and projects among the donor organizations. And this also -- the confusion also among -- (inaudible) -- countries in this region. In other words, how do you coordinate your assistance efforts at the national, regional and interregional level?

MS. LILLY: Ms. Loar?

MS. LOAR: Well, greetings to our friends and many colleagues there in the Philippines, and a warm congratulations to the government of the Philippines for their leadership. Let me just echo what Secretary Albright said, we congratulate you in stepping forward to host this very important meeting.

I think one of the outcomes that we are all hoping to see out of the gathering there in the Philippines is exactly this kind of coordination on a regional basis. The very fact that there is significant representation from the NGO community, that there are international organizations there, including U.N. agencies, and that several governments, more than 20 governments are there, I think it's a very good sign that there is a climate, a willingness to come together and work on this.

We look very much forward to the kinds of collaborative efforts that come out of the meetings so that there can be a regional plan of action. I might say that there has been great interest and excitement on a global level of the work that you are about to do at this gathering there in the Philippines. There are others in other regions in the world who will be looking to the work you do here as a model, and there is great interest in seeing that this kind of gathering and the kind of plan and work you do to work cooperatively around the region can be duplicated in other parts of the world.

Q. Ms. Inksetseg, would you please pose your questions to the panel in Washington, D.C.

Q. Thank you very much. I am honored to participate in this very important conference on behalf of the delegation of Mongolia. May I also add my thanks, extending our sincere thanks to the co-hosts of this meeting, to the governments of the United States and the Philippines. May I also greet the distinguished panelists in Washington, Ms. Theresa Loar, Ms. Carol Bellamy and Dr. Noeleen Heyzer.

My question will be we do know the international community is developing a protocol to prevent oppression and punish trafficking persons, especially women and children, supplement in the United Nations Convention Against Organized Crime. How do you see the prospects for developing maybe a United Nations model law with the basic elements of prevention, protection, prosecution and reintegration, relying on the best practices in different countries? It could be developed maybe under the lead of UNIFEM in cooperation with the U.N. Center for Crime Prevention. What do you think about these prospects? Thank you.

DR. HEYZER: I think that one thing is to have a model law. But having a model law itself is not enough. We need first of all to be engaged in an advocacy work across nations, using the media. The media is a very powerful set of tools which we have in order to change the culture that is necessary, so that it is not just a case of a legal framework, but there is a big cultural change. And on top of that, we have to really enforce the fact that it is no longer profitable for people to be engaged in this kind of economic activity. In other words, the issue of punishment is really, really important, and, therefore, the issue of enforcement of that law is something that we are very, very interested in.

Equally important is the fact that as we meet even at this stage, even before the law is established, is to get into our schools, to get into the orphanages, to get into where we find the communities where women and children are vulnerable, and try to create what I call zero kind of community of tolerance against trafficking. In other words, what we are doing with these kinds of international laws, using our international kinds of regulations and frameworks, there are also a lot of things that can be done simultaneously. And this will take a lot of effort across a whole range of actors and partners.

MS. LILLY: Ms. Bellamy, to you have something to add?

MS. BELLAMY: Well, I think Noeleen has actually spoken very eloquently on it. I'd only say that I think it's very important, if we are looking at legislation--and, remember legislation alone is never sufficient--the community advocacy, the education, the availability of quality education for girls, the empowerment of women is all very important.

But I think it's very important as well to not see legislation limited to criminalization, but understand that the legislation has to build in protections as well, because if the legislation is just pushed and advocated by those who are focusing on the criminal elements, it won't build in the protection for the victim, and that it seems to me is very important as well. So it has to be a combination.

Q. Thank you very much, Carol and Noeleen. I wanted to say that I agreed with Noeleen up to a certain point, which respect to saying that this is very much a woman's issue, we should get women empowered to be able to properly manage the issues concerning trafficking women and children. Correct. But I would go more than that, just that. This is a very politically charged concern, and it is not limited to women alone. It is for every individual in the whole world to be concerned as to what is happening to their women and children. And it must be a worldwide endeavor. So I would not limit it to women, although we call for women to really exercise, be empowered, to be able to manage and contribute to the effort of managing these very egregious concerns.

Now, the other point I wanted to say is I agree with Carol Bellamy, completely, that in the long run perhaps we could very well look into the possibility of having a legal framework. But in the meantime, the most immediate actions should be taking place -- de facto actions to see that we have practical exercises, practical cooperation, practical actions that would be bringing forward enforcement, protection, rehabilitation, education and prevention. Thank you.

MS. BELLAMY: If I might make a comment just generally, I think you made a very important point. We talk very often about trafficking, and particularly trafficking for sex purposes, and we know that that is a very real issue affecting women and girls. But it is important to remember that we are talking about everybody -- trafficking involves boys, it involves babies -- for many reasons -- it's for adoption, it's for child labor, it's for street work, it's for domestic work. It's for child soldiers, just another factor here.

We are working in China for example with the All China Women's Federation and the Ministry of the Interior on a program dealing with trafficking that involves trafficking in young boys for families who do not have a boy, and in young girls where there is a desire for early marriage. So it is -- and I think -- and I fall into that trap myself -- I think sometimes we talk about it in a limited -- not in an entirely limited, but a slightly limited way, just affecting girls and women. So I just want to remind us of this broader factor, which was done so well by you.

MS. LILLY: Ms. Loar?

MS. LOAR: May I also just go back to your point about the importance of not just women standing up on this issue but men as well? As a matter of fact, there is legislation pending before our Congress which has been introduced by, as it happens, male legislators on both sides, both political parties. And we are very eager to see that piece of legislation pass that will institutionalize and turn into law in the United States the very important -- not just the prosecution element, but the protection elements that Carol Bellamy mentioned, the reintegration efforts, and the prevention elements as well. We would like to see a permanent piece of legislation that would go into place and to have these issues addressed. And we support that.

MS. LILLY: Dr. Heyzer?

DR. HEYZER: What I wanted to stress is that I did not mean that this is an issue just of women and children. The percentage of women and children who are trafficked is obviously the largest percentage of those people who are actually being trafficked at this moment. But it is definitely an issue that involves everyone. In fact, in the work on violence that we have been doing in the organization, the involvement of men has been an extremely important way of dealing with male violence against women. And I was very pleased to be able to say that we had training of the police, we had people involved in the churches, people who were involved at the community level. But at the same time, we also have to be very aware that this involves a strongly corrupt network of criminals, and, therefore, we need to be able to deal with that, with the issue of power. And it is not just the political power, but it is also about gender power--how women are treated in their society, how girls are being treated in their society. And it is only when the vulnerabilities and gender hierarchies come together that you see the worse form of trafficking in women and children, and that was a point that I wanted to make.

Q. Yes, I agree with you that we have to involve everybody. And I think that even a citizen has an important role in all of this. For example, we might need to have the citizen reporting system, where they also individually can help eradicate all this.

Now, for the role of men, I think that sometimes it's easier for the Western men in my thinking. But somehow the men in the East are much more difficult to talk to. And my apologies to all the Eastern men in this room, but they are very stubborn -- (laughter) -- and they are very conservative. We put forth many, many laws, and we are voted down for everything that they did. So perhaps the Western men can come out here to help the Eastern men. (Laughter.)

MS. LOAR: We can suggest that.

Q. Now, related to your earlier comment on your policy and programs, does it imply that you are going to make commitments, let's say in the next five years? We don't want any more 10 years -- you know, we want to do it in a hurry. Do you commit yourself? Now, I am asking all three of you, in particular, for your organizations: Are you committing resources, personnel, material and that this topic would receive the high profile in your programs worldwide? Does it mean that your national office and regional offices that you have around the world will be playing more visible roles through assistance for the programs and projects that we are going to talk about at this meeting for example? We would like to hear your commitment publicly. Thank you. (Laughter.) (Applause.)

MS. LOAR: I can tell you that actually two of the members of Congress, the male members of Congress who have been very involved in legislation, actually did go out to and work with victims groups and meet with government representatives on this issue and came back to the United States very moved by what they saw and very much committed to action. So it does help us when our legislators do go out and have an opportunity to meet first-hand with people around the world who are working on this issue. And we might suggest that they come together with some of the legislators, male legislators from your region as well.

On the issue of commitments, which I think is at the very heart of this--we all know there is a problem, we all know how it should be approached. On the issue of commitments, I can say that you heard from our Secretary of State Madeleine Albright about the very serious approach that President Clinton and Mrs. Clinton and the Secretary of State have taken towards this issue, and that will continue. We are not just working in the East Asia Pacific region--and we are grateful for the partnership with the government of the Philippines and other governments--but we are also working very actively in Central and Eastern Europe, where we have a strong partnership and pilot program with the government of Ukraine. We are working with European countries such as Italy, and Northern European countries such as Finland and Norway. We have many partnerships with regional international organizations, but that, as Madeleine Albright said, is just the beginning. The battle has just begun. There is a lot more to do. But I am here to say that that commitment will not fall back, and there will be a very energetic movement forward in the next several months.

Part of our commitment to this comes from our ambassadors in the field. The U.N. I know has branch offices. But we have embassies in more than a hundred places around the world. And it's our ambassadors and our career diplomats in the field who have come to ask for action and help, because they are closest to the issue. They see the devastating effect that trafficking has as both a human rights issue and an issue of criminal activity.

So I can tell you that as long as there are people advocating for change, our ambassadors and our embassies in the field will keep pushing us in Washington to move forward, and we will.

MS. BELLAMY: Well, let me talk about UNICEF's focus over the next several years. We will continue to pursue our work in completing the child survival agenda. But we see particularly three critical outcomes for children in which we would focus. We will focus on those very early years, that there be a good start, as we say it, that the healthy development of a child, and that's both physical and cognitive development of the child is key. We see also the very importance of not only access to primary education, but the quality of primary education. And we are also focusing on adolescents, in trying to assure that they are able to realize really to their full potential. I say that because I put it in that context: we see our program much more on a horizontal rather than a vertical scale--not just a program in this or a program in that.

But obviously the issue of trafficking plays a very important role. It is estimated that there are 130 million children who ought to be in primary school who are not--two-thirds of whom are girls--many of them caught up in forms of exploitative child labor or some form of trafficking that clearly being able to be in school is--if there is a silver bullet, one of the closest things to a silver bullet when it comes to trafficking. We are clearly going to put resources into that.

We are joining with our colleagues, whether it's UNIFEM or the ILO--recently held a conference in West Africa specifically with the ILO--on trafficking. We see women as key to any advancement in development, and anything that retards women's full participation in society is something that will retard development, and, therefore, issues of violence or trafficking play a role.

So, yes, we are putting financial resources, we are putting human resources into this issue. But we are doing it in the context of these three outcomes that we see as very important for children in the future.

MS. LILLY: Dr. Heyzer?

DR. HEYZER: As many of you know who are my friends in the Asian region, will know that this is a personal commitment on my side for many, many years. It is not something that I have taken on because I am in charge of UNIFEM. Way back 20 years ago, when it was not fashionable, I put the issue of the trafficking in young girls in the ESCAP agenda at the ministerial meeting. At that time it was not a popular issue, and that in fact has now become a big program in the Mekong area. Simultaneously, way back in the mid '80s the Philippine government and myself came together with work on international migration, at that time working very much on the issue of the women who were kind of being exported as domestic workers. And we managed to put in place a data bank to trace many of them, as well as to look at some of the ways in which they could remit their money back to the country in a very safe way.

Now, this in a sense is a strong kind of personal pledge that I have made; that is an issue that now UNIFEM has taken on. And we have actually worked on this issue originally within the context of our work on violence against women. And UNIFEM, as many of you know, has a trust fund to help eradicate violence against women and girls. And much of the work on trafficking and the financing of that has come out of this fund. And from there we have actually funded work in Nepal, in South Asia, in Latin America, and so on.

But what is more important is the interagency campaigns that we have launched at the country level through the work of UNICEF, UNDP, and a variety of other organizations in partnership with the civil society and government in order to change laws, in order to put in place the right kind of services, looking at the criminal justice system, the protection and prevention. And this has in fact been launched in Latin America, in Africa, and now increasingly in Asia.

But I am also very pleased to say that we have a very special partnership with USAID and the State Department in work in India, and this has started an anti-trafficking center, whereby we bring the police together with the non-governmental organizations in a new partnership, in a new kind of protocol, so that we can actually map out who are the people involved, who are the actors, what kind of networks do they have, and what kind of services need to be put in place. And I think it is this kind of partnership, a partnership at all levels of society, with whatever resources we have, that will eventually make the kind of difference that we want to see.

Q. Madam Secretary Manalo, I am going to cheat a little. I have one question, but there are two parts. Based on your experience, Noeleen and Carol in particular, your experience around the world, what are some of the major obstacles to the necessary ingredients for effective networking? You know, this is the word that is in every conference--you have to talk about it. So what are some of the things that we should pay more attention to?

And, secondly, not only networking is the fashionable thing to do or to say or to write about, but you also have plans of action everywhere, formulated and adopted in many conferences at the global, regional and national levels. In your assessment, how can we ensure better coordination of these plans and increase support and monitoring of their implementation? We need your suggestions. Thank you.

MS. BELLAMY: Okay, I guess I'll start. Well, I think that there has been an improvement in networking, but I also think that these are issues that tend to be ones that have historically not been made as public as possible. One of the ways of confronting the issue of trafficking is that there has to be greater public awareness of it. And that actually is one of the elements of ammunition, if you will. And with that greater public awareness will come the development of more capacity: NGOs' commitment by multilateral organizations, funding from bilateral organizations in this case--it is not an area that has historically been well funded. I think that's to the credit of the United States that they are putting funding in this area. So I think there is still a way to go. You asked the question before about coordination, even among the multilateral organizations. I think it's improving, because I think some of us are realizing that these are issues that affect our ability to carry out our work, but there is still work for more improvement.

In terms of the many meetings and plans of action, it is important to step back sometimes and see what has been agreed upon. We don't have to continue to create new indicators all the time, or new objectives. We ought to complete some of the work that has been done. But I would go back as UNICEF to say that we are guided by the Convention on the Rights of the Child. I started by at least referring to certain articles within the convention. I think one of the ways to pursue this is, for example, in the review by the Committee on the Rights of the Child on what countries are doing in terms of the protection of children under the Convention on the Rights of the Child, because that will be a way to integrate many parties or integrate the government itself, or bring together the government itself with multilateral organizations, with NGOs in the country, with children themselves. And I think it stands as strong an element as some of the large meetings and the plans of action.

Clearly, the potential out of meetings such as Beijing Plus Five, if it can get back on track; the social summit which is being reviewed, the Copenhagen Social Summit, which is undergoing review; our own review of the World Summit for Children, and subsequent adoption of the Convention on the Rights of the Child, will also allow for these issues to be built into plans of action.

Finally, I would say even within U.N. agencies, as we are trying to work together a little closer at a country level, and trying to do our program planning more closely together--in fact, Noeleen and I were talking about this before this program tonight--we think that we can build into more of the U.N. agencies that would not have thought that this was even anything on their platter, a recognition of the fact that these are issues that are important issues. Human rights issues are becoming more central to the work of U.N. agencies.

MS. LOAR: I would just say that the value of networking is extremely important, and not just among people working across borders and from one country to another, but actually the coordination within our own government has been very important. And as my colleagues Anita Botti and Steven Warnach from the Interagency Council, who are there with you in the Philippines, can tell you, the work of trying to bring together our entire government bureaucracy to bear on this issue has been a great effort. We still have a long way to go, but our view is that it is not just our foreign ministry; it's the ministries of justice, immigration, labor, health--the full range of government agencies that have a role to play to protect victims who are brought into the United States; to take a look at our immigration policies so that victims are not victimized a second time; and to make sure that we have very tough laws on the books, and very tough enforcement. So there is great networking and coordination that needs to be done within our government, and we are doing that, but we do see great value in learning from other countries how they are working within their federal agencies, within their federal bureaucracies, and how they come together on this issue.

DR. HEYZER: What is really important is to ask the question: networking for what and with whom? And it is extremely important to know that in any society or any kind of a political situation you need a constituency, a strong constituency, for change. And, therefore, that needs to come from the kind of networking that we put in place to make that constituency highly visible at a local level, at the national level, the regional level, at the international level. Equally important is the issue of political will. How do we use networks with governments to build a common ground, to win donors, to make sure that we have the kind of back-up in terms of financial resources? But at the same time, the synergetic partnership, the sharing of good practices, the partnerships that we can build across countries, across borders from the local to the national to the international--all that is extremely important.

But what is equally exciting now is the fact that we have an information technology that we can use, and that we have used within UNIFEM to create what we call the End Violence Community. And this cris-crosses a whole variety of groups and people with experiences to share, and who can also use that to tap it as a kind of knowledge provider. So in other words, we have an opportunity to really bring about the most effective networking, if we think about it in very strategic ways. In other words, it's not just an add-on--it's not something that we add on to our document, but we can actually make sure that the documents and what we agree to in terms of the recommendations are converted into reality.

And plans of action cannot just remain plans of action. We from the U.N. side will try very hard to make sure that whatever plans of action come out will be converted into country programs using the U.N. country teams, using what is now called the United Nations development assistance framework. But the countries themselves will also have to identify this issue as their priority. And if there is a strong constituency, the pressures will be there for this to happen.

Q. Thank you very much. Ms. Theresa Loar mentioned about the U.S. partnership with Central and Eastern Europe. And also there was a study by UNICEF I think on the situation--the economic and social situation of Eastern European countries, including the situation of women and children. So my question would be: What is the situation of trafficking in post-Communist countries, and what would be the best practices, best strategies for them to undertake? What kind of national capacity, national mechanism, should be put in place to adequately fight this problem which is very challenging and ever increasing in those countries? Thank you.

MS. LOAR: She did refer to the UNICEF report. But one of the partnerships we do have in the region is with the government of Ukraine, that has passed legislation--the parliament has passed legislation against trafficking and is working all the time to strengthen that legislation and make it very tough and effective.

We also know that it's important--what we hear from NGO advocates and victim advocates in the region is the importance of preventive public awareness campaigns. And our first lady, Mrs. Clinton, was able to kick off one of our public awareness campaigns that we funded with the European Union in Kiev, Ukraine a few years back. And we can expect to continue those types of preventive programs.

We know it's very important to have the government's cooperation and partnership, because so much of the action that needs to be taken is on the behalf of the government. Training of police, training of immigration officials, are all very important. And we expect to see more and more of this training. We have done some training in the region. The U.S. has sponsored some training in the region for immigration officials, for customs officials. We expect to do more of that, because we think those kinds of preventive measures can go a long way.

MS. LILLY: I am sorry to say that at this point we have to say good-bye to two of our guests, Ms. Carol Bellamy and Ms. Noeleen Heyzer--Dr. Heyzer--have to leave. And thank you very much, ladies, for joining us. I am sure there are more questions for you, but I am sure that you will get to answer those at some other time.

And now let's go back to Manila for more questions.

Q. Thank you. My question was really reserved for Theresa. Theresa, the United States--how does the United States look on the value and significance of the deliverables in this workshop? Meaning: What is the significance to you of the deliverables, the regional plan of action of Asia Pacific with respect to this subject?

MS. LOAR: I think we are looking for a way forward on this issue. We have a number of ad hoc projects. We have very strong commitments from our U.S. Agency for International Development, a strong commitment they have made in the region. But I think we are looking for a cohesive plan of action that we can use to work on partnerships with other governments, with our colleagues from the United Nations, with other funders in the region, so that there can be a real comprehensive coordinated approach.

We know from hearing from NGOs who have played such an important role in bringing this issue out of the shadows--there are really factors--I think NGOs and also the press have played--both have played a very significant role in bringing this issue out of the shadows and into the spotlight. And we look forward to hearing what comes out of this conference as a model for when countries come together and when there are NGOs in the process, and it's prevention, protection, prosecution and reintegration--how those--what kind of regional action plan can be developed. So we look forward to an energetic implementation of that plan. And, as Secretary Albright said, she looks forward to a full report on that. I know that our full interagency task force that Anita Botti chairs is planning to work in the next several months on a way to move forward with some of the ideas that come out of this conference.

Q. Thank you, Theresa. From the point of view of the Republic of the Philippines, and I think the neighboring countries who are participating in this exercise, I think we all look forward to this regional plan of action to be a model or an indicative plan of action to be used with the rest of the regions of the world, the other parts of the world. Of course, we look to the trafficking of our women and children not limited to the region, but of course to the other side, to Europe too. And we hope that in the future we will have equally under an umbrella perhaps Asia and Europe carrying out an exercise similar to this one so that we could complete the action from the side of the Pacific to the other side--that is, Europe.

Now I pass you on to Senator -- (inaudible) -- who wants to pose the last question from this panel.

Q. Thank you. Thank you very much. Theresa, I am going to ask you a question--my last question--probably something I shouldn't ask in public, so please forgive--and you are entitled not to answer it, okay? With your national election coming up, and the result would go one way or another--although I am very optimistic that it will go the way that I would like it to, although I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican--will this trafficking project in the U.S. government be continued? Because you and your colleagues have been doing wonderful work, and I really admire all of you for looking after these problems so very closely.

MS. LOAR: Well, Dr. -- (inaudible) -- I would be disappointed if you didn't ask me a difficult and possibly embarrassing question. May I say that the work under Secretary Albright's leadership, the work that we have been doing the last couple of years on trafficking throughout our federal government has very strong leadership of this president and our first lady. But we have seen in Capitol Hill a real strong bipartisan support on the issue, and real strong leadership from both Republicans and Democrats. So we know one of those two parties will be occupying the White House in the next few years. We expect that the work that is being done now is institutionalized in our government. That is certainly our goal. It is much too important an issue to have just a temporary attempt at how to get at it. So we are working very hard to institutionalize this certainly at the State Department. The very fact that the U.S. government is co-hosting this conference with the government of the Philippines is an initiative that came out of the regional bureau of the State Department, represented by Skip Boyce at the conference; it represents their concern and their interest. And that came out from our embassy. So we do think there will be some ongoing action here, but we are going to use the next several months to make sure that programs that are put in place and approaches are institutionalized as much as possible.

We do count on our friends around the world, and NGO advocates here in the United States, to remind people who come into these positions in government that this is something that is very important to the federal government to keep the focus on.

Q. Thank you very much. We all understand that the issues are global, and the regional, sub-regional and international cooperation is important. And earlier it was mentioned that this ARIAT meeting is a very important initiative launched here in the Asian region. And how do you develop the cooperation with the other regions? For example, the cooperation of countries of origin, transit countries and countries of destination are important in tackling the problem comprehensively. So, mostly countries of destination seem to be in Europe or in other regions outside Asia. So how do you make this cooperation regional--between Europe, America and Asia? How do you see the prospects of that cooperation? Thank you.

MS. LOAR: Well, I agree that there are a number of destination countries that are outside of Asia, but in fact there are a number of countries within Asia that are also destination countries.

We would look forward to suggestions or ideas that would come out of this conference on ways that this regional approach that you are developing, the strategic regional approach, can be linked up with other regions. We don't have the answer to that, but we do look forward to--we look for ideas on how that can be done.

We know that there is, increasingly, a political will in governments around the world to take on this issue. We know that we have a strong leadership at the United Nations. So we have an opportunity now with leadership at the United Nations and some governments who are stepping forward on this, to be able to find a way to link up not just in one region of the world but on a global basis. If that is something that can come out of this conference and out of your deliberations in Manila, that would be very helpful to hear.

Q. Mine is no longer a question--it's just a reminder to everybody that there is definitely in the Convention of Human Rights of Women, at least for now, a very important chapter that deals with trafficking of women. And I thought I should mention that because I have not heard it mentioned anywhere in our dialogue, and I would like everybody to know that it does exist in the Convention on the Human Rights of Women -- (inaudible) -- Philippine expert today. We look forward that this topic will also be reviewed in the mid-term review in the United Nations General Assembly's Special Session this coming June, and that this should be a very major component of the review. And we could say if we could start moving forward now, from now to June is a very close time, but at least we could say that we have already taken efforts regionally--all over the world--to combat trafficking in women and children. This is all I have to say now. Thank you very much.

MS. LOAR: If I might suggest that at the Fifth Year Review of Beijing, the Women 2000 meeting that will be held at the United Nations in June, the regional action plan that comes out of your deliberations here--that would be an excellent place to share that with other delegations around the world. As you said, trafficking in women and children is an issue that will be covered in this review, and I think it would be very powerful to have the region, the Asia Pacific region, be able to present in some way its regional action plan. So that would give you another place to be able to share with other delegations and with other regions of the world the work that you are doing in the Philippines and how you think it can be shared with other parts of the world.

AMBASSADOR MANALO: Theresa, once again we wish to thank you very much -- not only because of this very constructive dialogue this morning, but because of all the efforts put in by the government of the United States of America, as well as the awareness that you have brought forward on this concern. We can assure you that the Republic of the Philippines as well as all its partners present here today in this workshop will do their best to bring forward a concrete workable regional plan of action on this subject. Once more, thank you.

MS. LOAR: Thank you very much.

MS. LILLY: Do you have a closing comment?

MS. LOAR: Yes, I would just like to wish all of you a very constructive and concrete conference that will result in real practical solutions. As Secretary Albright said, it really is a call for action. Many of you traveled very far, and with many changes of airplanes, to be able to come to this conference. I know the government of Philippines, with the leadership of Undersecretary Manalo, has done an extraordinary job in putting the efforts of their government behind this. So I wish you a very constructive and productive meeting, and we look forward to carrying forward some of the suggestions that come out of the gathering. Thank you.

MS. LILLY: Thank you. And that brings us to the end of our program. We would like to thank our Washington panelists, Ms. Carol Bellamy and Dr. Noeleen Heyzer for joining us today, and our participants in Manila. And a special good-bye to our viewers in Ulaanbaatar and the rest of the region. From Washington, I'm Judlyne Lilly and this has been Worldnet's "Dialogue." Good day.