For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
October 1, 2003
Press Briefing by Scott McClellan
The James S. Brady Briefing Room
12:44 P.M. EDT
MR. McCLELLAN: Good afternoon. This afternoon here shortly the
President looks forward to going to the Department of Homeland
Security, where he will receive a briefing and then sign the Homeland
Security Appropriations Act. The President believes the best way to
defeat terrorists is to take the fight to them, and we are making
significant progress in the global war on terrorism.
We are also making great progress here at home in securing the
homeland, and making sure that we are as prepared as possible when it
comes to responding to any attack that may come. We have taken
unprecedented steps to secure our borders, strengthen aviation
security, improve our detection capabilities, protect our critical
infrastructure and give our first responders the resources they need.
So the President looks forward to signing this legislation today.
One other statement I'd like to make. After five days of debate,
the Senate has now set aside consideration of the D.C. appropriations
bill, which includeds $40 million for improving D.C. public and charter
schools, as well as scholarships for a School Choice program here in
Washington, D.C. D.C. School Choice will give parents more options to
determine what is the best school to meet their children's needs by
providing scholarships for low income children. The silent filibuster
launched by a few Senate Democrats to prevent a vote is wrong. The
measure has the bipartisan support necessary to win passage and it
deserves a vote. We will continue to work with Congress to secure
passage of this important legislation, and we hope the Senate will move
forward quickly to pass this legislation.
And with that I will just go right into questions. Terry.
Q Scott, when did the President first find out that someone in
his administration had outed an undercover CIA official? What was his
reaction? What did he do about it?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, one, there's an allegation that that has
happened, at this point.
Q It was an undercover official who has now been exposed;
that's fact, right?
MR. McCLELLAN: Oh, I'm sorry -- an allegation that a senior
administration official did that, that's what I'm referring to.
Terry, there is a process in place that was followed. The CIA has
a process to look at classified information if it is leaked, and they
followed a process and that process has moved forward. And the
Department of Justice is looking into it. I don't know the specific
time period, but the process was followed, and the President expects
the process to be followed, and that process was followed, and that
what the President expects, because leaking classified information is a
very serious matter.
Q That's what I'm asking about. He said that -- I want to know
what he's done about it. This story broke in July. Did he know in
July that an undercover CIA official had been outed and that the person
who outed that undercover CIA official attributed it to senior
administration officials?
MR. McCLELLAN: I think there -- no, I understand what you're
saying. But I think there are certain assumptions you're still making
in your remarks. The Department of Justice is looking into this to
determine what you're saying about the potential leak of classified
information concerning an undercover CIA agent. And there have been
some news reports that I saw back to that period, some that have been
cited recently, talking about how some of this information may have
been well-known within the D.C. community.
Q Fair enough. But when did the President know it?
MR. McCLELLAN: But, see, that's what I just told you, Terry. The
process is in place, and it followed that process. I don't know, in
answer to your first part of your question. But the President expects
the process to be followed for something like this, and it was. The
CIA followed the process and information has been provided to the
Department of Justice. The Department of Justice is looking into it.
But, remember, back in July, when this issue came up and I was asked
about it, it was an anonymous source in the newspaper. There are
plenty of anonymous sources in news reports on a daily basis, and we
could spend all our time trying to track down the information from
those anonymous sources. But we want to be able to focus on the
people's business --
Q Right. But you were asked about it in July --
MR. McCLELLAN: And I made it very clear back there in July, too,
that there was no information beyond the media reports with anonymous
sources to suggest any White House involvement. But the process was
followed, and that's what's important. The President believes it's
important that the process was followed, because the President believes
the leak of -- the leaking of classified information is a very serious
matter.
Q Fair enough. If you get a chance, if you could establish for
us when it came to the President's --
MR. McCLELLAN: Terry, that was back in July and I --
Q Is that not knowable? That's knowable, right? It's
checkable?
MR. McCLELLAN: -- just don't know. I looked into it and I just
don't know.
Q Do you know if anyone has yet come forward to offer any
information to the Department of Justice about this?
MR. McCLELLAN: I think you need to talk to the Department of
Justice about that. They're the ones who are doing this investigation
and they would be the appropriate ones to ask that question.
Q Would you know? Would you know? Are you trying to stay away
from it?
MR. McCLELLAN: I don't have any reason -- I don't have any reason
to. That's the Department of Justice, that's their role, and the
criminal division over there.
Q Scott, in the past, the Justice Department has used polygraph
examinations in sensitive leak investigations. The President has said
he expects full cooperation. If I work at the White House and down the
road in this investigation the Justice Department came to me and said,
we want you to submit to a polygraph investigation, the President would
expect the answer to be?
MR. McCLELLAN: I appreciate the hypothetical, but that is a
hypothetical and that is not where the process is. The process is that
the Justice Department has asked the White House to preserve any and
all material related to the specific information they put in their
letter. And that's --
Q Well, let's set that specific hypothetical aside. If an FBI
agent or the Justice -- somebody on the Justice Department team made a
request of a White House official that is consistent with past
practices in a similar investigation, would the President expect
someone on his staff to comply with that request?
MR. McCLELLAN: The President has directed the White House to
cooperate fully, that message was sent as soon as he learned of the
investigation. He made it clear to White House Counsel, and White
House Counsel made it clear to senior staff the other day -- that was
the President -- at the President's direction. We will cooperate fully
with the investigation and make sure that we preserve the integrity of
the investigation. So that's where things are right now.
Q Ambassador Wilson says that he was told by a reporter that
Karl Rove said, "Wilson's wife is fair game." I know you've spoken
with Karl, does he deny that?
MR. McCLELLAN: I'm sorry?
Q Does he deny that he ever used those words, "Wilson's wife is
fair game"?
MR. McCLELLAN: Look, the issue here, and this came up earlier, the
issue here is whether or not someone leaked classified information.
That is a serious matter and it should be pursued to the fullest. I
have seen comments from Mr. Wilson. And I have seen him back away from
those comments later. It seems to be, he said one thing previously
about Karl Rove, and then he backed away from it. And now he's saying
other things. There's a changing of the issue here all of a sudden.
The issue here is did someone leak classified information, and, if so,
who was that person, and then the appropriate action should be taken.
Q You have said previously from the podium that these types of
accusations against Karl are "ridiculous."
MR. McCLELLAN: Yes.
Q On the very line that Ambassador Wilson says that Karl used,
"Wilson's wife is fair game," is that wrong?
MR. McCLELLAN: I've just said, he has said a lot of things and
then backed away from what --
Q Scott, I want to know --
MR. McCLELLAN: -- and then backed away from what he said. So I
think part of your role is to do some further questioning there.
Q I'm asking you, that's why we're asking, to make sure -- I
mean, we don't want to continue to report something that's inaccurate.
MR. McCLELLAN: If Mr. Wilson -- well, he made some comments
earlier and then he backed away from them, and those comments were
reported previously.
Q Does Karl deny that he said that?
MR. McCLELLAN: What were the words again?
Q "Wilson's wife is fair game."
MR. McCLELLAN: And who did he say it to?
Q To a reporter that then repeated it to Wilson.
MR. McCLELLAN: Again, this is -- the issue here -- what is the
issue here? Did someone leak classified information? Is that the
issue?
Q It could be about changing the tone, too.
MR. McCLELLAN: All of a sudden now, we're trying to change the
topic in this room.
Q There's a legal issue, there's an ethical issue, too. Going
after a man's wife is unethical.
MR. McCLELLAN: Let me make it very clear. As I said previously,
he was not involved, and that allegation is not true in terms of
leaking classified information, nor would he condone it. So let me be
very clear. But I'm not going to -- we're not going to go down every
single allegation that someone makes. That's just -- we can do that
all day long. Let's stay focused on what the issue is here.
Q You said the issue here was whether someone leaked classified
information. As I understand the applicable laws here, isn't the real
issue whether someone knowingly leaked classified information?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, yes, you may -- I may stand corrected on
that, you'll have to look at the law. I'm not going to play a lawyer
from here. But the leaking of -- I'll go back to what I have said and
what the President has said, and what he has always said, that the
leaking of classified information is a serious matter and it should be
pursued to the fullest extent. And the Department of Justice is doing
that now.
Q But I mean, isn't one of the questions here whether or not
people knew that she was undercover and went ahead and disclosed that
to a journalist, or whether they were --
MR. McCLELLAN: I think that is part of the investigation and part
of the issue that the career Justice Department officials will look at
as they move forward on this investigation.
Q Now, the other side of this, of course, is that the
conversation -- senior administration officials, not White House --
suggested that they were trying to belittle Joe Wilson's credentials by
saying, he didn't get the job because he deserved it, he got it because
his wife works at the CIA. Is there a concern about that side of the
issue, regardless of whether or not classified information --
MR. McCLELLAN: Repeat the last part -- the last part of your
question?
Q Is there concern about the fact that some senior
administration official somewhere suggested that he only got the job
because his wife worked at the CIA -- which is apart from the
classified aspect.
MR. McCLELLAN: Again, I think the issue before us is the
classified aspect of things. Your specific question is, was there
concern that news reports said that he may have -- or suggested that he
may have gotten the job because his wife worked at the CIA? Is that
what you're asking?
Q Yes. I'm asking if there's any concern now about that -- an
effort that appears to be, if it was not an intentional leak of
classified information, it was, one could argue, an attempt to belittle
his credentials by saying he got the job because of his wife. And I'm
just saying, is there a concern about that, as well as the classified?
MR. McCLELLAN: The President doesn't condone any such activity
and, you know, I have not seen any information brought to our attention
to suggest that.
Q Scott, with agents possibly hours or days from either showing
up at the White House or making phone calls, has the White House
developed any rules of engagement between staffers and contacts with
agents? Do the staffers have to report contacts first to the legal
Counsel's Office, or do they just start answering questions? What are
the rules here?
MR. McCLELLAN: Ed, what has been asked of us at this point is
simply to preserve information. And that's exactly what White House
staff has been directed to do and we expect all White House staff to
do. That's the issue here. The Justice Department hasn't asked us
anything beyond that, at this point.
Q I understand.
MR. McCLELLAN: I am sure that we will receive additional requests
from them and we will cooperate fully at that point --
Q -- think that somebody here is thinking about the next day or
the next --
MR. McCLELLAN: -- when we do.
Q -- this afternoon or tomorrow?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, making sure that information is preserved. I
mean, the White House already is required to preserve and maintain a
great deal of information. A lot of our information is already
retained. I mean, the phone calls that you make to my office, that
information is retained.
Q On that point, could I quickly follow up? This is in no way
to suggest any responsibility --
MR. McCLELLAN: On a piece of paper, Terry. (Laughter.) The
message.
Q -- trying to get a sense of how widespread certain
information might have been within the White House, if -- the
possibility. In going back through your records and anyone else you've
come in contact with, have you come upon any documents that are covered
by the "relevance" that either mention the Ambassador, mention his wife
and her role at the CIA?
MR. McCLELLAN: Are you asking if I, personally, have?
Q Yes, if you've come across anything in your email or anything
that's come across --
MR. McCLELLAN: I was traveling most of yesterday, so -- got back
about 10:00 p.m. last night.
Q Did anyone come to you and say they found -- here's this
document that came through their email?
MR. McCLELLAN: Come to me? Well, first of all, if they have
questions, the Counsel's Office is ready to answer the questions. If
they have information related to the investigation, we made it very
clear that we want that information reported to the Department of
Justice. I'm sure that staffers are -- that feel they need to are
going back and making sure that those records are maintained. That's
what we expect.
Q I'm just trying to get a sense if anybody, any sense of the
scope. Just news clips about Joe Wilson's -- that might have been
emailed around the White House --
MR. McCLELLAN: No, but at this point, staff has been directed to
preserve the information and make sure they maintain that information.
They haven't been asked to do anything. Like, they haven't been asked
to give it to anybody or anything beyond what the President has made
clear, that if they have information relevant to the investigation,
anybody -- not only in the administration, but outside the
administration -- should report that information to the Department of
Justice, particularly people who are citing White House officials as
being involved in news reports -- if they have relevant information,
they should report that to the Department of Justice.
Q Does "preserve it" mean just do not delete it? Or does
"preserve it" mean actually, proactively, go back and look to see if
you have anything that's relevant?
MR. McCLELLAN: It means preserve it and maintain it, make sure you
do not get rid of that information if it's relevant to the Department
of Justice request.
Q Scott, the President used the words, "come forward,"
yesterday. Does he not want anybody to 'fess up to him or to Andy Card
or somebody --
MR. McCLELLAN: To the Department of Justice. To the Department of
Justice.
Q He doesn't want to know --
MR. McCLELLAN: The Department of Justice is investigating this,
they're the appropriate agency. As I have said earlier in the week,
that is where information should be reported.
Q First, have any investigators yet contacted any members of
the White House staff?
MR. McCLELLAN: Any members -- all they've asked us to do at this
point is what's in the letter.
Q No investigators have come, there haven't been any specific
--
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, you might ask the Department of Justice if
they tried -- I'm not aware of any such contacts, beyond contacts
they've had with the Counsel's Office to say, we're going to be sending
this letter, this is under investigation, and then the letter sent --
follow-up letter sent yesterday afternoon.
Q Okay. To follow up on what Terry was asking about earlier,
what changed between July 14th and yesterday that accounts for the
President not having spoken out then, where he is speaking out on this
now?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, for the very reason I've already said, and
the very reason I said back in July, is that there was an anonymous
source making allegations -- I'm not even sure when it was specifically
-- an allegation was specifically made that it was a White House person
involved in this. But the process was followed. There is a process
for if --
Q But that remains the case now.
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, and there is discussion -- again, I think
there was a news report several days later, after the initial article,
suggesting that classified information had been leaked and citing
senior administration officials. Again, the appropriate way for this
to be handled is the way it was. The CIA looked at this, made some
determinations, sent some information to the Department of Justice.
And that's what the President expects to happen.
Q But isn't the underlying question --
MR. McCLELLAN: And as soon as the Justice Department contacted us
and said that an investigation is underway, and then the President was
informed, he made it very clear that he expects the White House to
cooperate fully.
Q But the question remains, if he feels so strongly about this,
why was there nothing earlier? Why was there nothing in July and
August?
MR. McCLELLAN: Because there was no information -- there was no
information brought to our attention beyond an anonymous source in
media reports to suggest that there was White House involvement, that's
why.
Q There's also been some suggestion that White House aides may
have pointed reporters toward that story after it was published, toward
the name --
MR. McCLELLAN: Yes, here we go. I mean, this is -- I understand
that this is the way Washington, D.C. operates, and all of the sudden
--
Q Well, let me --
MR. McCLELLAN: -- the first allegation, well, maybe it was shaky,
and then they go to the next allegation and then the next allegation --
Q But that's the real issue.
MR. McCLELLAN: -- and that's not --
Q You want to knock it down, clearly, but that's the real
issue.
MR. McCLELLAN: -- the real issue here is that this President --
Q Did the President think there was anything wrong with that?
MR. McCLELLAN: The real issue here is that this President thinks
the leaking of classified information is a very serious matter and it
should be pursued to the fullest. And the President does not condone
the kind of activity you talked about.
Q He does not condone the -- people pointing reporters toward
classified information that's been released; he would not condone that
either? Is that what you're saying?
MR. McCLELLAN: The President doesn't condone the activity that
you're suggesting, absolutely he does not.
Q Scott, long-term intelligence experts, former CIA employees
who have now become a talking head class, if you will, say beyond the
problem with the leak, itself, is the contacts that Mr. Wilson's wife
may have had.
Can you tell us what type of investigation is underway to look into
either protecting those kind of contacts, or actually an investigation
into whether or not any of her contacts may have been compromised
because of this leak?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, you might want to direct those questions to
the CIA.
Q Are you aware of any investigation along those lines? Are
you confident --
MR. McCLELLAN: You mean of the CIA looking back and seeing if
anything --
Q -- presumably someone here --
MR. McCLELLAN: You need to talk to the CIA.
Q Presumably someone here in the White House would have asked
someone at the CIA to say, hey, are your people okay by this? Are you
aware of that happening?
MR. McCLELLAN: I think you need to talk to the CIA about those
questions, if they've gone back and made those determinations.
Q And if I can follow. Is there any need for Attorney General
Ashcroft, given his relationship with Karl Rove and others, to recuse
himself in this investigation at this point?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, as I said earlier, those are determinations
that the Department of Justice will make. The Department of Justice
publicly said that they had not ruled anything out. I mean, remember,
this investigation has just gotten underway and there are career
Justice Department officials and FBI officials who are looking into
this, who are part of the investigation. It's being addressed by the
career professionals at the Department of Justice and FBI. And the
President responded to that issue yesterday, as well.
Q Ambassador Wilson is meeting today on the Hill with
congressional Democrats. Does the White House consider him an honest
broker in this?
Q That was canceled.
MR. McCLELLAN: I did see those reports. You know, I think that I
will leave it to you to raise those issues and to look at that. That's
part of the job of you all in the media, to look at and make
determinations about -- or to at least present it to the public in the
way that you determine best.
Q Scott, the Republican Party has launched an offensive,
impugning Mr. Wilson's credibility. Does the President condone that?
MR. McCLELLAN: The President is focused on getting to the bottom
of this. We need to get to the bottom of this. There is a lot of back
and forth that goes on here in Washington, D.C. The President is most
interested in determining what happened and getting to the bottom of
this investigation. There have been some serious allegations made and
we need to get to the bottom of it.
Ken.
Q And given that they're so serious --
MR. McCLELLAN: I may come back to you later, because we've already
-- I'm going to try to keep going through everybody.
Q According to the chronology you outlined yesterday, there was
this, approximately an 11-hour time lag between the time the Counsel's
Office was notified by Justice on Monday night and the memo and
messages went out to staffers to be -- some Democrats, such as Senator
Schumer, have jumped on that time lag and been very critical of it.
MR. McCLELLAN: And what do they say?
Q He said that this illustrates -- this illustrates the need
for a special prosecutor, that a special prosecutor would never have
allowed that. I understand what you said yesterday, that you were
prepared to move immediately -- "you," the Counsel's Office was
prepared to move immediately and you were told by Justice, no, tomorrow
morning is okay.
But Schumer and other people are saying that a special prosecutor
never would have allowed that. Who in the Counsel's Office got the
call Monday night? And who did they then notify?
MR. McCLELLAN: I think I'll leave it that the Counsel's Office was
contacted by the Department of Justice -- I'm not getting into all the
names -- at approximately 8:30 p.m. on Monday evening. I mean, the
White House staff was not notified at that point because they said,
it's fine to notify them tomorrow morning.
So I don't think -- you know, it wasn't known amongst the White
House staff that there was an investigation underway until the next
morning.
Q Who was notified? Did the person in the Counsel's Office who
got the call, call Mr. Gonzales --
MR. McCLELLAN: I think you can expect that the Chief of Staff
would have been notified.
Q The Chief of Staff was notified. And did he -- did he then
send the information to anyone else?
MR. McCLELLAN: No, it was -- the President was informed of the
investigation the next morning.
Q So nobody else -- it went from the Counsel's Office to the
Chief of Staff on Monday night, and --
MR. McCLELLAN: That's what I know. What I just told you is what I
know. I don't know beyond that. But I know that the White House staff
was not contacted. It went to Counsel's Office and I think Counsel,
appropriately so, would inform the Chief of Staff at that point.
Q Scott, two quick questions, if I may, to a less serious one
--
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, do we want to stay on this subject? Does
anybody have some --
Q Yes.
Q Yes, could you just lay out --
MR. McCLELLAN: All right. Let me stay on this subject so we can
go through some more hypotheticals. (Laughter.)
Q To get away from hypotheticals, would you lay out the details
of what Counsel Gonzales has now told White House staff they must
preserve? I mean, it's a rather detailed --
MR. McCLELLAN: You have it all in the memos. You have it in the
memo -- we released those two memos. I didn't bring them with me to
read through that. But it was very specific information that was sent
to us yesterday afternoon from the Department of Justice.
All right, who has a hypothetical? (Laughter.) No, you've already
had one. We'll come back -- we'll try to get back to people later.
Q Thank you.
MR. McCLELLAN: You have a hypothetical? (Laughter.) I asked for
a hypothetical. No, no. (Laughter.)
Q I'm no Bob Novak, but my feelings are really hurt that nobody
leaked anything to me. (Laughter.)
Has the White House asked George Tenet or anyone else at the CIA
why they would send a partisan, like Ambassador Wilson, on this
mission? And because he is so partisan --
MR. McCLELLAN: Has who asked? Has who asked anybody?
Q Has the White House asked George Tenet or anyone at the CIA
why they would send a partisan like Ambassador Wilson on this mission?
He's proven himself to be partisan, and does that cast doubt on the
report that he filed in this matter?
MR. McCLELLAN: Yes, I think we've kind of been through this issue
already. I don't know of any such conversations. Certainly, I don't
think it's my position to get into speculating about someone's
motives. I think that is a role for you in the media to determine how
to follow.
Q Isn't the White House the least bit curious --
MR. McCLELLAN: And how to -- and how to present it to the public.
Q -- about how the process was, that Ambassador Wilson was
chosen to go on this very important mission?
MR. McCLELLAN: I've seen the news coverage, just like you have.
I've seen the issues that have been raised, and, again, I think that
that's best left for you in the media to determine, not me from this
podium.
Q Scott, this is not hypothetical at all. You say the issue is
leaking classified information. So my question is did Karl Rove or any
others in the White House talk with reporters, not leak classified
information, but talk with reporters about Mr. Wilson's wife and her
CIA status after the initial report by Robert Novak?
MR. McCLELLAN: After his initial report? Again, you're -- now the
issue is changing. The issue was --
Q No --
MR. McCLELLAN: The issue is, did someone leak classified
information. That's a serious matter.
Q Right. But if someone --
MR. McCLELLAN: That's being investigated. Do people talk about
what's in the news? That's a whole a different -- that's on a
different --
Q There is talk about a woman who's still undercover.
MR. McCLELLAN: And I just made clear --
Q I believe --
MR. McCLELLAN: I just made clear that -- well, was it reported
that, one, was that what was reported in the article?
Q I'm just asking, did --
MR. McCLELLAN: Was that what was reported in the article?
Q She was an undercover operative.
MR. McCLELLAN: In the original article?
Q Yes.
Q Yes.
MR. McCLELLAN: I think it was reported "operative" in the Novak
column.
Q Operative by definition --
MR. McCLELLAN: I think it was reported -- and he said, you
shouldn't use the word "operative." I think the word was "operative."
So, I don't know that it said -- I don't --
Q My question is pretty straightforward. Did Karl Rove or
others have conversations with reporters about Mrs. Wilson?
MR. McCLELLAN: In what way?
Q And her CIA status.
MR. McCLELLAN: There's an investigation going on in asking
everybody to preserve any information they would have related to some
of the issues you bring up. I'm not -- there's been no information
brought to our attention to suggest that anyone leaked classified
information, and the President certainly doesn't condone the leaking,
or the tactics you're suggesting.
Q You seem to be suggesting that perhaps they had
conversations, but weren't leaking classified information.
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, there's an investigation going on to pull
together all the information. But the issue is, did someone leak
classified information? That's a serious issue. And I just made it --
I made it clear early, you brought up Karl's name. Let's be very
clear. I thought -- I said it was a ridiculous suggestion, I said it's
simply not true that he was involved in leaking classified information,
and -- nor, did he condone that kind of activity. This has been
answered, and now we're trying to get in a whole bunch of issues,
separate and apart from that.
Q Did your conversation with Rove include whether or not he had
tried to highlight that story for reporters?
MR. McCLELLAN: I'm sorry?
Q Did your conversation with Rove include asking him whether or
not he had tried to highlight that story for reporters, the Novak
story?
MR. McCLELLAN: I made it very clear -- I have spoken with him. I
have spoken with him. I made it very clear that it's not true that he
was involved in the leaking of classified information or that he
condoned some of what you're suggesting.
Q No, but did he -- did he participate in that? Because then
it would make sense that he said, she's fair game now, if it was after
the fact. Did you ask him whether or not he participated in that --
MR. McCLELLAN: I think the individual who said that has already
backed away from other previous comments.
Q I'm asking what you asked Rove.
MR. McCLELLAN: And I made it very clear that the issue was
regarding the leaking of classified information. And the issue was --
and someone asked about condoning that information. I made it very
clear that he didn't condone that kind of activity and was not involved
in that kind of activity.
Q Just to be clear, whether Rove condoned it or not, he did --
he also did not participate in that type of activity, as far as you're
aware? Is that correct?
MR. McCLELLAN: There is an investigation going on to pull together
all that information. I've answered this question. And you can ask it
a million different ways, but my response is still going to be the
same.
Q Are you saying that it's okay to discuss some -- a leak --
MR. McCLELLAN: I'm going to try to keep going around to other
people, but go ahead.
Q Are you saying that after the fact, after such a --
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, now we're getting into -- well, let me put it
in perspective. Now we're getting into issues such as, did anyone talk
about what was in the news, what was reported in the paper, things of
that nature. That can go down a whole lot of different roads. And
that's why I think it's important to let the investigation take place.
And the investigation is specifically about potential leak of
classified information. And you're asking me to try to determine
information that's going to be pulled together by the Department of
Justice. They --
Q I'm just asking --
MR. McCLELLAN: I think the request, or the information that we've
been asked to preserve and maintain was spelled out in the letter from
the Department of Justice, and that's the information that could be
related to those topics and those areas. And so we expect all White
House staff to follow the directive from the President to cooperate
fully in preserving and maintaining that information.
Q What I'm asking very specifically is, is it okay, in the
President's view, to discuss -- for a staffer to discuss, after the
fact, classified information --
MR. McCLELLAN: That is such a broad question, about is it okay to
discuss news articles. I mean, news articles are discussed all the
time.
Q A news article that contains a piece of classified
information that is leaked -- is it okay to discuss after the fact that
kind of --
MR. McCLELLAN: A news article that reported information?
Q Classified information.
MR. McCLELLAN: I'm not -- and again, I'll have to go back and
check, but I'm not sure that the article, the original article said
anything about classified information or said specifically,
"undercover." I may be wrong -- I think it did say "operative."
Q It didn't say --
MR. McCLELLAN: And the columnist made it clear he probably
shouldn't use that word, because his understanding was that she was,
indeed, an analyst. So those are the facts.
Now, you're asking me to go back and try to talk to everybody
throughout the White House, did anybody talk about this article? I'm
just not in a position to be able to do that. I think that's the
position for -- that those issues will be addressed by the Department
of Justice in the investigation.
Q I'm not asking you that. I'm just asking, as a matter of
policy, does the President draw a distinction between a leak of
classified information --
MR. McCLELLAN: And talking about news articles?
Q -- which includes --
MR. McCLELLAN: That's why I want to be clear what you're asking.
In talking about news articles?
Q Peddling them.
Q A specific news article that contained a piece of classified
information. Is that okay in the President's view?
MR. McCLELLAN: Was it known that that information was classified?
Q Well, as a matter of policy --
MR. McCLELLAN: I think that's an important question. Was it known
that information was classified information?
Q The article certainly identified Valerie Plame as a CIA
operative. That fact presumably was not known --
MR. McCLELLAN: And the columnist said that it was his
understanding that that individual was an analyst.
Q -- we don't know what he --
MR. McCLELLAN: But did the article say, "classified information,"
though? I mean, there are all sorts of "ifs" and "buts" in that
question that would be difficult for me to answer from this podium. I
think that's for -- the Department of Justice is looking at all this.
Q Scott, you said that the first the White House Counsel's
Office was notified of the investigation was Monday night. Attorney
General Ashcroft said yesterday that the investigation was launched
Friday, and that prior to that, there was a certain amount of legal
activity that went -- involved before they decided to launch the
investigation. What contacts were there between the White House
Counsel's Office during that period of time and after the Sunday report
--
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, keep in mind that our Counsel's Office on a
lot of issues is in contact with the Department of Justice. What I
said, that the first contact about the investigation -- as far as I
know, and I've checked on this -- was when the Counsel's Office was
contacted by the Department of Justice Monday evening.
Q So during this period of time, this sort of 48 hours between
when The Washington Post reported that an investigation was under
consideration and that Monday night, there was no contact between the
White House Counsel's Office and the Department of Justice concerning
the scope or whether there was going to be an investigation on it?
MR. McCLELLAN: To the best of my knowledge. To the best of my
knowledge, that's correct.
Q I have another issue. Are we still -- do you want to stay on
this?
Q I have a --
MR. McCLELLAN: On another issue? The same issue, anybody? Bill.
Hypothetical?
Q No, no hypothetical. Does this investigation extend to
former administration officials, as well, people who worked in the
White House who might not work here now?
MR. McCLELLAN: You might direct that to the Department of
Justice. What they've asked us to -- all White House staffers to
maintain their information. There are records that are maintained from
former White House staffers that were here. So, I mean, there's a lot
of information that we have to maintain anyway. Some of this goes
above and beyond that, but those records that we have to maintain are
always maintained. So if that's the question you're asking, I think --
Q Scott?
MR. McCLELLAN: This issue?
Q This issue.
MR. McCLELLAN: Paula, not this issue? Paula, John, and -- well,
I'll come back to you if I can at the end, John.
Paula, go ahead.
Q The President has been going around the country in his
speeches talking about the corporate accountability issue and how
important it is to be held accountable from the top down. And I still
-- I still don't understand why, when this information came out and it
was made public in mid-July, why the President didn't feel it was his
responsibility to ask his staff if they were involved in this? His
inner-circle staff, who would have had access to the information.
MR. McCLELLAN: Let me see if I can try to help you understand.
First of all, back in July when this issue came up, I was asked about
it. I pointed out that it was an anonymous source that was being cited
in news reports, that there was no information beyond the media reports
to suggest that the White House was involved in any way in what was --
the questions that were raised at that time.
There is a process that the administration has in place to address
the leak of classified information. Make no mistake about it, the
President has always held the view that the leaking of classified
information is a very serious matter. And the process was followed.
And the CIA reported information to the Department of Justice. That's
what the President expects to happen. It did happen. Now there's an
investigation going on to determine whether or not classified
information was leaked.
Q But prior to that process, the President didn't believe that
he had any personal obligation to ask the staff --
MR. McCLELLAN: The President expects the leaking of classified
information to be taken seriously. We did not have any information
beyond an anonymous source in media reports to suggest White House
involvement. We could go through the paper, probably on a daily basis,
look at anonymous sources, look at allegations that are made against
the administration and try to track down that information. But we
would be doing a severe disservice to the American people, because we
are staying focused on their business and the highest priorities that
are going on in here.
I know there is a -- there sometimes is the media frenzy that
happens around an issue like this. We are going to do everything we
can, at the direction of the President, to cooperate fully with this
investigation. But we are also remembering that we are here to serve
the American people, and there are important priorities that need to be
addressed and we're going to continue focusing on those important
priorities.
Q I want to set aside the issue of classified information, or
leaking classified information for a minute -- a lawyer might call this
a state of mind question. Back when Joe Wilson's op-ed came out in The
New York Times criticizing the administration, and when he went public
and started giving TV interviews, saying that he thought that you were
exaggerating the intelligence and twisting the intelligence -- you have
communications strategy meetings all the time, in part to decide
proactively what you want to say about the President's agenda, but in
part, to decide how to respond to people who are criticizing you. Do
you recall ever being part of a meeting or meetings in which you said,
this guy is getting in our face, we need to rebut him, or we need to
find our friends to rebut him?
Sometimes you do it from the podium. Sometimes you seek friends
and allies in Congress. Sometimes, say the Republican National
Committee --
MR. McCLELLAN: John, like anybody else in the White House, I'll go
back through all my records -- I'm making sure that I maintain them,
too, and see if there's any information that's related to this
investigation. If I find any --
Q I'm not asking --
MR. McCLELLAN: I know. But if I -- but if there's information
that was requested of -- or requested, that we maintain relating to Mr.
Wilson's trip. One, we addressed the issue of when we became aware of
that, of the trip, which was this summer when it was reported. But,
you know, like anybody else in this -- hopefully, like anybody else in
this White House, I'm going to do exactly what has been requested that
we do and directed by the President of the United States.
Q That's a Justice Department issue. I'm asking you, as
someone who sits in this room everyday, was there ever a conversation
or meetings where this -- you know, there was a big political debate
going on then, as you well know -- that this guy's kicking us, and we
need to respond and rebut?
MR. McCLELLAN: What I remember is addressing the issue of the
trip, and when we learned about that. That's what I remember. But I'm
going to go back through my records like everybody else and see if
there's anything else that may be indirectly or directly relevant to
what the Justice Department has asked.
Other issues? Goyal, I started with you, and we'll go back to
you.
Q Yes, sir, thank you. Two quick questions. One, talking
about the tape in Pakistan that was delivered by the number two man of
Osama bin Laden to the al Jazeera, and tape was coming from the
Pakistani government of Pakistan. That tape has been criticized now
inside Pakistan and outside, that this may be creation of General
Musharraf to gain more sympathy from the United States because of
opposition back home. Any comments about the tape? How serious --
MR. McCLELLAN: I've heard nothing of the such. You're the first
-- first place I've heard that is from you. Pakistan is someone that
is working closely with us in the war on terrorism. We appreciate
their cooperation and we're continuing to work with them on the war on
terrorism and other issues, as well, other bilateral issues, as well.
Q Number two, ongoing meeting now with Prime Minister of
Pakistan with the President was in the Oval Office and over luncheon.
What are the major issues here they are going to discuss, as far as the
terrorism is going is concerned, and Afghanistan problem?
MR. McCLELLAN: Yes, I know, I expected -- I could be at that lunch
right now, but I thought it would be more fun to come out and answer
all these hypotheticals. (Laughter.)
Actually, I didn't want to make you wait too long -- I didn't want
to make you wait too long, and I guess he's probably through with that
lunch by now and on his way to the Department of Homeland Security.
So I'll try to get you more information about the meeting and
lunch. But, as I said earlier today, that I -- I fully expected that
they would talk about our cooperation in the war on terrorism. And
they would talk about some of the regional issues, such as Kashmir.
The President made it clear last week to leaders of India and Pakistan
that it's important to have dialogue to help reduce the tensions in the
region. And so I'm sure that that topic came up, as well, and other
issues.
Q Thank you. Scott, the AP is reporting that perhaps Saddam
Hussein was bluffing, that he had no weapons of mass destruction. AP
says the man looking for such weapons, David Kaye, plans to tell the
Congress this week that Saddam may have been bluffing. Any comment?
MR. McCLELLAN: One, not seeing the progress report -- we have not
seen the progress report that Dr. Kaye has been working on. He will be
testifying -- I believe tomorrow -- but we haven't seen the progress
report, so I can't tell you what the progress report is going to say or
what he's going to say. He'll have those remarks. But keep in mind,
it's a progress report, that the President directed him to pull
together a full and complete picture of Saddam Hussein's history of
weapons of mass destruction.
We know he had weapons of mass destruction and we know he used
weapons of mass destruction. Those are facts that are indisputable.
So we expect him to complete his work and the truth will come out. But
at this point, what we're talking about is just a progress report. And
the CIA has commented specifically about what that will likely -- I
mean, generally speaking, what the focus of or the scope of that
progress report is.
Q On the $87 billion, is the administration concerned at all
about the direction the debate is taking about it on Capitol Hill? And
why is it that the administration is so opposed to a $20 billion loan
to Iraq, as opposed to a $20 billion grant, and then using the oil
reserves as collateral?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, let's keep in mind a few things. One, this
package, we view it as one package. Some are trying to separate out
reconstruction from what our troops need. They go hand in hand, they
go together. This is about -- Iraq has become the central front in the
war on terrorism. And this package is about helping us prevail in the
central front in the war on terrorism. This package will help make
sure our troops have all the resources they need to carry out their
objectives, to accomplish their task.
But part of helping them accomplish their tasks is bringing about a
civil, orderly society, a society that is functioning. And there are
really three different parts to that reconstruction package, so I think
it's important to point those out: providing the people of Iraq with
the tools and resources they need for their security, and this is in
the form of resources for an Iraqi army, for border security, for
prosecutions and criminal -- investigating criminal activity.
There's also resources in there for establishing basic living
standards. They were under a brutal regime that neglected the
country. So it's addressing things such as building a children's
hospital, improving the sanitation, building minimal standard housing.
All this helps to bring about a more secure environment, and that means
our troops will be able to accomplish their tasks better and sooner.
And then it's also about creating an environment for investment and
economic independence. And those are kind of the three parts of the
reconstruction efforts.
But going back specifically to your question, Iraq was saddled with
debt from the previous regime. It was the result of Saddam Hussein and
his brutal, oppressive regime. We are trying to work as quickly as
possible to transition to a free, sovereign and democratic Iraq so that
the Iraqi people can have responsibility over their future. This is
about helping the Iraqi people build a better future. We think that
the best approach is to proceed forward with the grants and that is
exactly what we will continue to push for. And we're appreciative of
members of Congress who are working with us to do that and get it
passed as quickly as possible.
Q Are you concerned, however, about the way the debate is being
staged, that there seems to be a lot pressure? And some Republicans,
including Arlen Specter, are expressing interest in the loan as opposed
to a grant program.
MR. McCLELLAN: That's why I walked back through some of this.
Keep in mind, we didn't walk away from Germany and Japan after World
War II. A free, sovereign and democratic Iraq is essential to our
national interest and important to our national security because this
is about -- when we get there, we will have dealt a significant blow to
the enemies in the war on terrorism by helping bring about more
stability in a very volatile regime.
Q Thank you.
MR. McCLELLAN: Thanks.
END 1:30 P.M. EDT
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