For Immediate Release
Office of the Vice President
March 22, 2004
Vice President Cheney Participates in Radio Interview
Telephonic Interview of the Vice President by Rush Limbaugh
The Vice President's Office
1:10 P.M. EST
Q We are always happy to be able to talk to Vice President Dick
Cheney who joins us now on the phone. Vice President Cheney, thank you
for making time. It's great to have you with us once again.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, thanks, Rush. It's good to talk to
you.
Q All right, let's get straight to what the news is all about
now, before we branch out to things. Why did the administration keep
Richard Clarke on the counterterrorism team when you all assumed office
in January of 2001?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I wasn't directly involved in that
decision. He was moved out of the counterterrorism business over to
the cyber security side of things, that is he was given a new
assignment at some point here. I don't recall the exact time frame.
Q Cyber security, meaning Internet security?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, worried about attacks on the computer
systems and the sophisticated information technology systems we have
these days that an adversary would use or try to the system against
us.
Q Well, now that explains a lot, that answer right there
explains -- (Laughter.)
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, he wasn't -- he wasn't in the loop,
frankly, on a lot of this stuff. And I saw part of his interview last
night, and he wasn't --
Q He was demoted.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: It was as though he clearly missed a lot of
what was going on. For example, just three weeks after the -- after we
got here, there was communication, for example, with the President of
Pakistan, laying out our concerns about Afghanistan and al Qaeda, and
the importance of going after the Taliban and getting them to end their
support for the al Qaeda. This was, say, within three weeks of our
arrival here.
So I guess, the other thing I would say about Dick Clarke is that
he was here throughout those eight years, going back to 1993, and the
first attack on the World Trade Center; and '98, when the embassies
were hit in East Africa; in 2000, when the USS Cole was hit. And the
question that ought to be asked is, what were they doing in those days
when he was in charge of counterterrorism efforts?
Q Well, the media finally has what it wants -- I'm talking
about the partisan media has what it wants. It's got an independent
contractor, a man whose worked for both administrations, now launching
full barrels at the President. And one of the claims that Clarke is
making is that -- and you just countered it -- he said the President
didn't treat al Qaeda as a serious threat before September 11th. He
keeps harping on the fact that even before your administration assumed
office, you guys wanted to go in and level Iraq.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, that's -- again, that's just not the
case. The fact is, what the President did not want to do is to have an
ineffective response with respect to al Qaeda. And we felt that up
until that point that much of what had been done vis-a-vis al Qaeda had
been totally ineffective: some cruise missiles fired at some training
camps in Afghanistan that basically didn't hit anything. And it made
the U.S. look weak and ineffective. And he wanted a far more effective
policy for trying to deal with that. And that process was in motion
throughout the spring.
Q Why do you think -- and he's not the first, Clarke is not the
first -- why do you think so many opponents of the President -- and
what do they hope to achieve by continually attacking Condoleezza
Rice?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well -- (laughter) -- it's short-sighted.
Condi, is well able to defend herself. She's done a superb job for us,
and is extremely knowledgeable National Security Advisor.
Q Well, I guess what I'm getting at --
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I've worked with a lot of them over the
years. I suppose he may have a grudge to bear there since he probably
wanted a more prominent position than she was prepared to give him.
Q Well, I guess what I'm getting at is that whenever it comes
to the counterterrorism efforts, foreign policy in general, it seems
that elements of the Democratic Party today and their allies attack
Condoleezza Rice, which is a matter of real curiosity to me. And, of
course, she can defend herself -- as she did today in The Washington
Post. But it's just part of the -- what to me appears now to be an
obvious attack machine at full throttle. You have this book coming out
while John Kerry is on vacation so he doesn't have to say this stuff.
The author of this book is associated with Kerry's foreign policy
advisor, up at the Kennedy School. You have a Bob Woodward book that's
coming in a few weeks from the same publisher. Despite all of these
attacks, and by the way, I actually think, Mr. Vice President, if
you'll permit me an editorial comment here, you have the Clinton
administration -- if they had defended the country as eagerly and with
as much fervor as they are attempting to defend themselves in all this,
we might have -- and I don't expect you comment, I just -- we might
have escaped some of the attacks that we've had.
But with this frontal assault, the President's poll numbers remain
up. The administration remains focused. They haven't taken you off
your game. What effect -- both in a governing sense and in a political
sense -- is this full frontal assault having on all of you in the White
House?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, we've got to get on with our business.
There's plenty of work to be done. The terrorist threat is very real.
It continues out there every day. The President and I and Condi Rice,
Andy Card begin our day six days a week meeting with the Director of
the CIA and the Director of the FBI and reviewing intelligence, and
working these problems. And you've got to be able to continue to do
that, even if there is a campaign underway out there.
And I think we've done that fairly well. We can't let our guard
down. We've got to remain vigilant. We've still got major issues,
obviously, in the sense that terrorists have launched many attacks
around the world since 9/11 in places like Madrid, most recently -- but
Casablanca, Riyadh, Bali, Jakarta, Mombasa. It's a worldwide global
problem, and it's got to be dealt with, I think, very aggressively --
just the way the President's dealt with it.
Q Do you believe that this policy of dealing with them
aggressively has led to more terrorism?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I don't. The fact of the matter is, I think
we're operating, obviously, with a very different policy. Tending to
treat these matters primarily as law enforcement problems prior to
9/11, that in no way slowed down the terrorists. They still launched
against us on 9/11 and killed some 3,000 of our people that morning.
This has less to do with what we do than it does with what we stand
for. I think the extremists out there in al Qaeda are bound and
determined to do everything they can to try to change U.S. policy and
to kill Americans, including innocent civilians and women and
children. And the only way to deal with the threat -- because you
can't negotiate with them, there's no treaty at the end of the day
here. You can't deter them. There's nothing they want to defend. The
only way to deal with them is to destroy the terrorists before they can
launch further attacks against the United States, and that's what we're
about.
Q Mr. Clarke, to get back to him for a moment, is saying that
actually if we would just take some more time and talk to these people,
understand why they hate us, we might be able to forge some kind of
peace with them.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I think that's totally unrealistic. At least,
I fundamentally disagree with his assessment both of recent history,
but also in terms of how to deal with the problem. As I say, he was
the head of counterterrorism for several years there in the '90s, and I
didn't notice that they had any great success dealing with the
terrorist threat. I think what we've done since, going into
Afghanistan, taking down the Taliban, closing the camps, killing al
Qaeda, wrapping up a significant percentage of the total leadership of
al Qaeda, that's an effective policy.
Q Now, what would you say to people, though, who may be casual
-- or a bit more than casually interested in this because it does
appear to the average observer watching the news that terrorist attacks
are up around the world, and yet the administration keeps claiming
success in the fight against al Qaeda as evidenced by more of them
dead, more of their leaders imprisoned, al Qaeda on the run. How are
you defining this success against them?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, we've been defining it in terms of --
specifically al Qaeda, in terms of our ability to wrap up major parts
of the organization, to prevent further attacks against the United
States, obviously. I think all of that -- all of those are hallmarks
of success. But you've also go to measure it in terms of the fact that
we're changing circumstances on the ground in key parts of the world,
both in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Afghanistan was basically a failed state. Then with the Taliban in
charge it provided a sanctuary, a home base, if you will, for al Qaeda
to launch attacks not only against us, but wherever they chose.
Afghanistan can no longer be used for that purpose because of what our
forces did there.
In Iraq, a similar proposition there. We were concerned not only
about the fact that Saddam had hosted terrorists in the past. He'd
stimulated and encouraged them by providing financial rewards for
suicide bombers that hit Israel, as well as his past involvement with
weapons of mass destruction. And all of that put us in the position
where we think now with the process begun both in Afghanistan and Iraq,
where we're standing up new governments. We've got constitutions
written where we're going to have governments put in place, here,
hopefully, in the not-to-distant future, where those areas will no
longer be threats to the United States or anybody else. In fact,
they'll be able to serve, we hope, as models for responsible states in
that part of the world.
Q Mr. Vice President, one quick one before we go to the break.
Clinton administration officials who are now on television, again,
attempting to defend themselves in all of this hubbub, are trying to
create the impression that this whole al Qaeda and modern era terrorist
problem began on January 22nd of 2001. What exactly was it you
inherited?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I go back to the first attack on the
World Trade Center in '93, when the man named Ramzi Yousef, together
with others, tried to bomb the World Trade Center then. Remember they
took a truckload of explosives and set it off in the parking garage
underneath the World Trade Center. It didn't do what they hoped it
would do. He eventually was captured. He's now doing 240 years in a
federal pen.
But what we now know, I think, looking back at that, nobody
realized it at the time, but looking back at that, was that was perhaps
the first al Qaeda attack on the U.S. homeland. Ramzi Yousef turned
out to be Khalid Shaykh Muhammad's nephew. Khalid Shaykh Muhammad is
the guy who came up with the idea of using airliners to strike the
World Trade Center in about 1996, we believe, when he first suggested
that, and who later supervised the attacks of 9/11.
Q You mean that idea didn't come in February of 2001? The
terrorists had that idea in 1996?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: No. There's been some evidence that he, in
fact, first briefed Osama bin Laden on that in 1996, when he first
suggested that.
Q Richard Clarke away of that by any chance?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I have no idea.
Q We'll take a break and be back in just a second.
(Pause.)
Q Welcome back. Rush Limbaugh on the EIB Network. And we
continue our conversation with the Vice President, Dick Cheney.
Mr. Cheney, let's go to the campaign. Last week, after your
appearance in Simi Valley at the Reagan Library, The New York Times and
other media outlets the next day immediately posted stories decrying
all of the new negativity and partisanship in the campaign. After your
appearance. No mention of what the Democrats have assaulted this
administration with for three years. It was your appearance and things
like it.
Now, I realize that this is part of the game. But how does this
affect you and your strategy as you go forward toward the election?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, we've got, obviously, a very important
election here, Rush. This may be the most important presidential
election in many years because of the issues that are going to be
decided here, especially with respect to how we defend the country in
this war on terror. And it's very important we get our side of the
story out. People talk about negative campaigns starting early. The
fact of the matter is, we just recently got started. The Democrats
have been out there since last September, roughly -- launching attacks
against the President and me. And it's been a good part of what
they've spent the money on, on their side, has in fact been primarily
negative as opposed to what we've been trying to do. We haven't been
engaged --
Q Well, you ran -- your first series of ads were patriotically
themed with the 9/11 images, which were designed to cast the election
about America's future. And those ads were even said to be attack
ads. When you criticize Senator Kerry's record, it is said that you're
attacking him and going negative and this sort of thing. I see it's
not deterring you, and so forth. But how do you plan a campaign
against an opponent who will claim to have said or not said anything
he's accused of having said or not said?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, you've got him on tape saying things
like, "I actually voted for it before I voted against it," talking
about the supplemental for the war in Iraq. That's not anything we
dreamed up. That's John Kerry himself, captured on film. So in
effect, basically, what we've been talking about here is his own
record. He's had 19 years of votes in the Senate. All of us will be
judged on our performance in office, certainly the President will be
with respect to his four years. And John Kerry should expect to be
evaluated, as well, by the voters based on how he's performed as a
senator and what that tells us about his capacity for the leadership
position he aspires to.
Q Does it frustrate you when you see Senators Hagel and McCain,
Republicans, sort of attack the administration's attack on Kerry's
voting record and defend it, saying, hey, he's been here 19 years,
we're all going to have a lot of votes that we couldn't explain because
they're cast in strange ways? Does it bother you to see what some
people regard as Republican defections?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Oh, I guess, I wouldn't go that far in terms
of how you characterize it. John McCain has been a good guy to work
with these last several years. I've known John since we served
together in the House of Representatives. He's co-chairman of our
Arizona effort. I called him a couple of months ago and asked him to
make a run to New Hampshire for us, which he did a very good job on.
So I don't have any criticism to offer at this stage. We've got
personal relationships involved there, as well, too. And I don't think
we'd be critical of that. John has been a good supporter of ours.
Q No, I understand -- I understand. I just -- we see things in
the paper, and it irritates supporters of the President who may not
understand in a time like this where the administration is involved in
a struggle for the future of the country to see some Republicans not
totally on board that struggle puzzles people. They don't understand
it. It just befuddles them, and they don't quite understand why people
would do things that might appear on the surface to undercut the
President's efforts, such as Senator McCain toying publicly with being
Senator Kerry's Vice President.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I saw that interview and I didn't take
it that way. I think John McCain was asked if he would entertain such
a notion, and he said, well, he'd entertain it, but he didn't think it
was likely and went through all the reasons why. He's made it very
clear he doesn't want to be Vice President, and that he's not about to
leave the Republican Party. So it's early in the campaign, and again,
as I say, I think it's a big party. There's room in it for everybody,
and we don't have any complaints at this stage about Senator McCain's
actions. He's been very supportive of the President. On occasion,
they disagree and he expresses those disagreements.
Q What about your health, sir? How are you doing?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I'm doing well. I'm getting older year
by year, I guess. But I don't have any complaints, Rush. They've been
taking good care of me.
Q And we have about 45 seconds. Are you planning to stay on
the ticket in this election?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: As long as the President wants me, that's
where I'll be. And he's indicated he wants me to run again, so that's
what I plan to do.
Q All right, Mr. Vice President, I know that you're extremely
busy. You've got many things going on. We always appreciate your time
here. It's always an honor to speak with you. It's inspirational for
a lot of people. And I always say this to you at the close of every
conversation we have, just to affirm it because I know you know it, but
you really need to be reminded how much love there is and appreciation
for you and the President, the whole administration for what you're
trying to do against these long odds. And I speak for all these people
out there who love you and appreciate it and wish you continued
success.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, thank you very much, Rush. That means a
lot.
END 1:31 P.M. EST
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