For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
November 21, 2003
Interview of the President by Al-Sharq Al-Awsat
The American Embassy
London, England
November 19, 2003
2:50 P.M. (Local)
Q I know you are the busiest person --
THE PRESIDENT: Thanks for coming by. I appreciate your interest.
I'm honored you'd come by.
Q Mr. President, I think the question, number one, I have to
ask is, now you're talking about transferring the power from the
coalition now to the Governing Council sometime in the summer. What is
exactly your timetable for that?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, it really depends upon the Governing
Coalition. They've expressed a desire for the transfer of authority in
June. There are certain benchmarks that must be achieved. But let me
just give you a kind of a broader assessment.
We -- Ambassador Bremer came to the United States, as you know,
gosh, I think it must have been a week ago or 10 days ago. And we sat
down and made a conscious decision to listen to the voices on the
Governing Council that were interested in accelerating the transfer of
sovereignty, and we decided to -- obviously if that's what they're
interested in, that we needed to assess whether or not it was
possible. The assessment was positive. And therefore, Jerry Bremer
went back to the Governing Council and worked out a timetable that
they're comfortable with. And that's very important.
As you know, one of the -- initially the thought was to have a
constitution written, then elections, then sovereignty. It was going
to take a while to write the constitution, because there was a
sentiment amongst the people that there needed to be elections to a
constitutional assembly. And yet, because certain things had happened,
the transfer of sovereignty seemed more realistic at this point in time
than it did initially. And I could cite some of those in a minute.
And so the idea was to have kind of a standard law under which the
Iraqi people would operate, transfer of sovereignty, and then a
constitution be written.
And as you know, the Governing Council is now in the process of --
you asked the timetable -- one of the decisions they must make is what
will be the form of the kind of the local elections or caucuses that
will then determine the makeup of the initial kind of representative
body. That's their decision. And it's important for me to emphasize
"their" decision, because we believe -- and still believe -- believed
and believe that the Iraqi people are plenty capable of running their
own country, a free country.
Q But who are we going to hand it over to -- let's say, if you
start in the summer, are we saying the summer is accurate?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I think so. That's exactly what we're aiming
for now.
Q Who is going to go for without, of course, the constitution,
without a --
THE PRESIDENT: Well, there's going to be kind of a general law
that will be agreed upon before by the Governing Council so that people
know that their rights will not be trampled, that there will be -- that
the minority populations will have a voice in the future government.
In other words, there has to be something other than a constitution
because the constitution it looked like was going to take a long time
to write -- but something that would have basic rights guaranteed, a
preceding document to what eventually will be the constitution. And so
that's part of what the Governing Council agreed to do.
Q But your vision, you think it's going to be one person, a
president would be --
THE PRESIDENT: My vision doesn't matter. That's important for you
and your readers to know. What matters is the vision of the Iraqi
people. And I've said in my speeches that I believe in democracy, but
I recognize that democracy can come in different forms and democracies
will not look like America's democracy necessarily. So there's ways to
get to a system in which minority rights are represented, a rule of law
prevails, all the systems inherent in democratic form. And they come
in different ways, as you know. In particular in the Middle East, or
throughout the Arab world.
In my speech today, which I don't know if you heard it or not --
Q Not yet.
THE PRESIDENT: You've got to hear it -- please.
Q I will, indeed.
THE PRESIDENT: Okay, because it's important for you to hear
because I think it gives you some insights into my thinking in my heart
about the Arab people and the Muslim people. I said in my speech,
there are -- I said one of the things that the Western world has to do
is change its way of thinking about the Muslim world, or the Arab
world. And that is that -- some will say, oh, these kind of people
can't manage, can't govern themselves. I completely disagree. And one
of the points I point out is that half the Muslims live under
democratic societies and they're contributing citizens. And those
societies have got different ways of dealing with democracy. And
Iraq's democracy will emerge in a uniquely Iraqi fashion. And that's
what I'm trying to say.
Q So we don't know in the summer it's one president or a
governing council, elected --
THE PRESIDENT: And that's fine. Because a system is emerging.
And that's what's important to know. But the Iraqi Governing Council,
the Iraqi people will make that decision.
Q Are we saying -- will that follow by withdrawing troops,
American troops from --
THE PRESIDENT: No -- two separate courses. I'm sorry to interrupt
you, I'm anticipating your questions, in the name of time.
Q No, that's the question --
THE PRESIDENT: We're talking two separate tracks. The political
track is developing and it's developing well, because certain things
didn't happen. One, there was no great huge refugee flows. Two, there
wasn't the sectarian violence. Remember, these were all -- some of the
predictions. I'm not suggesting you were making these predictions, but
others might have been making predictions about sectarian violence.
You remember that prediction. Or refugee flows. Or hunger -- food
shortages throughout the country. And none of that happened.
But, obviously, what is happening is violence that we're dealing
with, and that's a security issue. But the political process is moving
forward. And the ministries are now being staffed. There is a local
region -- local governments up and running. There's a variety of
indicators that the system is moving toward this democratic transition,
which the Governing Council recognizes and supports. So that's
happening.
The other track, of course, is the security track. They're not
mutually exclusive, of course. But in terms of our participation, we
will stay until Iraq is allowed to emerge as a free society, which we
know will happen.
Let me give you kind of the strategy. See, I said in my speech
today, the Iraqi people will not reject freedom, and I believe that.
And one way that they will protect their freedoms is to develop the
forces necessary, internally, to work with coalition forces to deal
with the few that are trying to destroy the hopes of the many. And I
think we have over 130,000 now, Iraqis, in one kind of uniform or
another. That would be your border guards, your facilities protection
services, the police. And we've got a battalion in the army, and we're
growing the army. I think they think it will be up around 30,000 by
the end of next year, a trained, capable Iraqi army. And the first
task, of course, for these uniformed Iraqi personnel is to rout out the
killers, people willing to destroy.
I had a very interesting meeting -- I'm sure you read about the 17
Iraqi women who came, that came to the White House. It was really,
really interesting; a hopeful meeting, very capable women, anxious for
a free society to emerge. And one lady made it clear to me that, yes,
you've lost people, but we've lost a lot. And the Iraqi people are
suffering and are dying, because people are trying to terrorize their
society by killing them. And the Iraqi people will reject this because
they yearn for freedom, just like you yearn for freedom and I yearn for
freedom.
Q Mr. President, am I getting this right, you will not have any
withdrawal of any troops by the summer?
THE PRESIDENT: No. We will have troops on the ground that will
match the security needs, is the best way to put that.
Q So you're not saying more or less?
THE PRESIDENT: I'm saying I'm going to listen to the generals who
say, Mr. President, we've got -- we need more, we need less, we've got
exactly the right number. They will tell me the number. Their job is
to secure -- is to work with the Iraqis to deal with the terrorists.
And there are the Baathist terrorists, there Jihadists, there are al
Qaeda-types, Ansar Islam-types. And their job is to help the Iraqis
secure their country, and they assess all the time, the commanders, and
they say, we need this number here, we need that number here. And it's
their decision to make. I set the goal; they decide the tactics.
So General Abizaid -- if you want to know what the troop strength
will look like in June, go find General Abizaid and he'll tell you.
Q Are we saying that you are doing the transfer of power
earlier than planned because the pressure, because of the loss of life,
the French, everybody --
THE PRESIDENT: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because what I
told you, that the Governing Council -- the circumstances -- the
situation in Iraq and the Governing Council's progress led us to
believe that this transfer of sovereignty could take place in a
realistic and helpful way.
Q So do you expect the violence -- do you have a number, like,
of loss of life will determine how you will run your --
THE PRESIDENT: Of course not. We're not leaving until we get the
job done.
Q How long is that and how --
THE PRESIDENT: That's like if you were interviewing me before the
attack on Baghdad, you would have said, how long is it going to take?
And I would have said, however long, you know -- I mean, you're asking
me to put calendars on things -- this is the second calendar question
you've asked me.
Q Some people make a parallel between Iraq and Vietnam. Do you
see it?
THE PRESIDENT: I know that people are anxious to be free. They
were glad to get rid of Saddam Hussein. They were pleased when his
sons met their demise. This person tortured, brutalized an entire
population. And it's a different situation.
Q I didn't hear the word "Vietnam" in your answer.
THE PRESIDENT: No, because -- I gave you the answer, you asked the
question. You asked me if there's parallel. I said it's a different
situation. You understand the difference here, the people --
Q Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Okay. You know what I'm talking about, the people
are pleased to get rid of Saddam.
Q Mr. President, is it accurate to say that your military did a
good job and they won the war in a very quite short and surprising
matter, but your civilian managers did not manage the country very
well?
THE PRESIDENT: I think what's safe to say is that the initial
phase of the war went well, and the second phase of the war is going as
expected, because Baathists -- there are some people who refuse to give
up and yield to freedom because they were the ruling elite. And we're
making, in many phases, very strong progress.
For example, the currency. I think if you were to go back and look
at the history of currency replacements or issuing new currencies,
that's not an easy task. And, yet --
Q -- President Saddam, his face on the currency --
THE PRESIDENT: No, they've got new currencies. And that's hard to
do. And, yet, we're making good, steady progress in replacing the
currency.
The oil revenue is an interesting question. Again, this was an
issue, if you remember, before the -- when the ultimatum was reached,
there was a lot of speculation that if we went to war, the Iraqi -- the
main asset of the Iraqi people would be destroyed and it would take
years to bring the oil production back up. But, in fact, the oil is
flowing, up to about 2.1 million barrels a day, to the benefit of the
Iraqi people.
In other words -- and we got that ministry stood up very quickly
and it's functioning well. The school system -- I think there's 1,500
elementary schools up and running with new textbooks and supplies. The
hospitals -- I mean, there's example after example on the civil society
side where we've made good progress.
Obviously, what is -- what's tough are the terrorists who kill.
And they kill Iraqis. They kill international aid workers. They kill
because they're trying to shake our will. And they're not going to
shake -- they're not going to shake our will.
Q Are you going to visit Baghdad?
THE PRESIDENT: I don't know yet. Will I at some point in time? I
certainly hope so.
Q Before election or --
THE PRESIDENT: (Laughter.) I don't know. I'm just trying to
finish my trip here to England.
Q What about the road map? It's your project, but nothing has
--
THE PRESIDENT: No, it's our project.
Q Nothing has happened so far.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, that's not exactly correct. I mean, it's --
first of all, the road map exists -- let me tell you, this was U.S.,
EU, U.N. and Russia. So it's kind of an international strategy toward
saying to parties, take responsibility, be responsible citizens.
I gave a speech on June 24th, '02, in the Rose Garden, which -- get
on the web page and look at it, because it will give you my sense of --
I hate to keep directing you to my speeches -- but it will give you a
sense for -- and I reiterated that today. I spent quite a bit of time
in the speech today on the Arab-Israeli issue. And I called on all
parties to adhere to responsibility.
I said, the best way for -- see, I believe that the Palestinians
deserve a state. As a matter of fact, I'm the first United States
President to stand up and call for that. And I believe it, and I mean
it. But that state must be democratic in order for it to survive, with
institutions that will survive the test of time. And it needs
leadership that will not steal money, that will not deal with
terrorists, that will not continually dash the hopes of the Palestinian
people.
And I found such a leader, I thought, in Abu Mazen. And I stood
with him in Aqaba, Jordan, and as you might recall -- and Israel has
got responsibilities, and the Arab states have got responsibilities.
And I delineated Israel's responsibilities -- end the settlements, and
not prejudice final negotiations on states with walls, to end the daily
humiliation of the Palestinians. This was all clearly enunciated
today, by the way, in the public arena.
Anyway, I was with Abu Mazen. He convinced me that he believes in
the aspirations of the Palestinians, and he wanted to work on the
security issue. He wanted to dismantle the security -- these terrorist
organizations, which are destroying any chance for peace. And guess
what happens to him -- he gets shoved aside. And I thought it was an
interesting lesson.
We hope this new Prime Minister will stand up and do what is right,
which is to work to dismantle the terrorist organizations, and put the
institutions in place that are larger than the people -- institutions
which will survive the test of time, so Palestine can emerge as a
peaceful, viable, democratic state.
Anyway, so therefore -- that's it, the road map -- there is a road
map. The road map calls for mutual responsibilities. I just laid the
division at the end of the road, which I believe in.
Q Can I ask about now, a loaded question, which is, I know it's
--
THE PRESIDENT: Well, you've already asked about five loaded
questions. (Laughter.)
Q It's about three countries. I'd like to hear your -- exactly
how you're going to treat the end of this crisis. One is Iran, how
you're going to --
THE PRESIDENT: Well, it depends on Iran's decision --
Q -- on Syria, and finally your friends in Saudi Arabia.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, first of all, let's start with Saudi
Arabia. Crown Prince Abdullah is an honest man. And he is a friend of
mine. I like him and respect him. And he has told me that we are
joined at fighting off the terrorist organizations which threatened the
Kingdom and they threaten the United States, and he's delivering. He
also has told me that he's going to work on reform, and I believe him.
Iran: The choice is theirs. They must adhere to the
non-proliferation treaty that they agreed to. And they must be
transparent and open and honest with the world about their ambitions.
It looks like we're making some progress. The Secretary of State, as
you know, yesterday met with ministers from European countries with
this message; that we all need to speak with a unified voice that says
to the Iranians, get rid of your nuclear weapons ambitions. And
hopefully the -- not hopefully -- and work with the IAEA to develop a
open and transparent regime with the Iranians.
Syria: Again, it's the leader of Syria's choice to make. The most
important thing that he can do -- oh, by the way, on the Iranians, one
other point I want to make to you is that they hold al Qaeda
operatives. And we would hope that those al Qaeda operatives were sent
back to their countries of origin.
Q From Iran.
THE PRESIDENT: In Iran, yes.
Syria: We have talked to Syria before and we still feel very
strongly about the same thing, that they need to shut down the
Hezbollah offices in their country, Syria.
Q -- Jihad --
THE PRESIDENT: Hezbollah. And JI, absolutely. Hamas, if there
are such offices there. And they need to do a better job on their
border to stop any infiltration going from Syria into Iraq with weapons
and terrorists and Jihadists. A peaceful Iraq is in Syria's interest.
A free and peaceful Iraq is in the interest of the neighborhood. And
we would hope that Syria would be cooperative in the development of a
free and peaceful Iraq, and not turn away from any infiltrations that
might be taking place -- that are taking place -- from Syria into
Iraq.
Q Does that mean you will -- on Syria, is there negotiation now
taking place?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, there's -- there's not much negotiation. How
do you mean, negotiations?
Q Discussions.
THE PRESIDENT: It's hard to negotiate -- stop terror. You either
stop terror or you don't stop terror. It's not -- oh, yes, they
understand, they know our feelings, they do, yes.
Q They know it by -- there is someone in between?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, they know it because they -- first, they're
going to read their story, and since I'm speaking directly to you and
there's nobody in between, they will hear that. Secondly, that
Secretary of State Powell talked to President Assad last -- early last
summer, I think it was, and delivered some of this message. This is
before -- I say, some of it, because this is before the -- well, I
think he delivered all the message, if I'm not mistaken. I mean, he is
-- in other words, if you're saying, has anybody -- has President Assad
heard from my government? Yes, Secretary of State Powell had a good
talk with him.
Q Did you promise Blair anything about the road map? Because
there's a story yesterday about it.
THE PRESIDENT: What do you mean, promise him anything?
Q Prime Minister Blair, about the road map. There was a story
yesterday that came out -- to be activated or some --
THE PRESIDENT: We haven't talked about the road map. I mean, we
talk about the Middle East all the time, but he hasn't said -- I'm not
sure what you're referring to. It seems like a lot of things are
printed in the newspapers here. (Laughter.) Not yours.
Q Can I just have your signature here, please?
THE PRESIDENT: I'd love to. Thank you. Thanks for the
interview.
Q Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: And what you need to do is get stationed in America
again. (Laughter.)
END 3:10 P.M. (Local)
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