Interview with Rodolfo Munoz of CNN En Espanol

QUESTION: One of the main concerns in Latin America is corruption. What should be the role of the Organization of American States in the fight against it?

SECRETARY POWELL: Take a very strong position, but not just take a strong position, but to put in place mechanisms that will help individual countries fight against this corruption. That was the main theme of our OAS General Assembly meeting here today. The United States is giving roughly $40 million dollars each year to countries in the region to help them fight corruption. Corruption is stealing: stealing from children, stealing from hospitals, stealing from schools. It is a destroyer of democratic societies. And I was pleased with what I heard from the delegations here today, how they understand that the rule of law and corruption have to be seen in the same context. You must have the rule of law within developing nations, and that rule of law must stamp out corruption or else people will not want to invest in that country. People of that country will lose faith in their leaders. They will say, “you know, what was the point of democracy if corruption is just as rampant as ever.” The OAS understands this and is working hard against all forms of corruption.

MR. MUNOZ: The Organization of American States is discussing the long-time dispute between Chile and Bolivia. Does the U.S. have a position regarding the situation where Bolivia demands access to the passage in [inaudible]?

SECRETARY POWELL: No, this is a very difficult issue and there is a long history associated with this issue. But it is a matter for the countries concerned to work out, and the United States will support whatever solution the two countries are able to arrive at.

MR. MUNOZ: Would you like to comment on the role played by Cesar Gaviria and OAS in the political crisis in Venezuela?

SECRETARY POWELL: I think that Mr. Gaviria and the OAS have played a very important role, working alongside President Carter and the Carter Center. And I’m very pleased that the results of the recent reparos process, as it is called. And I’m pleased that the Government of Venezuela, the Carter Center and the OAS, and the opposition have all agreed that enough votes were validated, or enough signatures were validated, so that it can go now to a recall referendum. And I hope the recall referendum will have as much transparency and openness and international supervision as the reparos process did.

MR. MUNOZ: How would you describe the state of the relations between the United States and Latin American countries since the beginning of the war against terrorism?

SECRETARY POWELL: I think very good. As you may recall, I was in Peru when 9/11 took place. It was a meeting of the OAS. All of my OAS colleagues gave me strong support on that terrible morning. And ever since they have been working with us to improve law enforcement exchanges, to improve intelligence exchanges.

We all recognize now that terrorism is not just a threat to the United States; it is a threat to every country in the region. And many countries in Latin America have suffered from terrorism in the past, long before our experience with 9/11. So, I think it has pulled us closer together in joining forces against terrorists of all kinds.

MR. MUNOZ: One more about Venezuela, Mr. Powell. The referendum expected to take place in Venezuela in August, are you concerned about the possible outcome of that process?

SECRETARY POWELL: I believe that we have a constitutional process underway, so I just want to see this recall referendum held in an open, fair, transparent way. I think that’s what we all want. And from what I’ve heard over the last several days, that is what the Government of Venezuela wants, what the opposition wants. And I hope that the OAS and President Carter and the Carter Center will continue to play a role. But the outcome of the recall referendum is a matter for the Venezuelan people to decide. The United States will be satisfied with any outcome that truly reflects the will of the Venezuelan people.

MR. MONOZ: How would you assess the overall political direction that the region is taking?

SECRETARY POWELL: The direction the region is taking?

MR MUNOZ: Yes.

SECRETARY POWELL: I’m very encouraged. I have been at a senior level in my government for a good part of the last 20 years. Twenty years ago we had so many countries in this hemisphere that were still being run by generals, by dictatorships, and now all of our nations, except for Castro’s Cuba, are democracies. Democracies aren’t easy things to manage, but all of the democracies, all of them understand that this is the way they have to keep going, down a democratic path, with economic democracy, as well. So, I think this is all encouraging.

But what we have to do now is get rid of corruption, put the rule of law firmly in place, provide more aid to the region, which the United States is doing with our new Millennium Challenge Account, but also create conditions that will attract investment. The region needs not aid, but trade. And with the Free Trade Agreements that we are entering into, the regional Free Trade Agreements we are entering into, I hope this will encourage more trade in the regions and create more jobs for people in the region.

MR. MUNOZ: The region, Mr. Powell, is still faced with challenges on the economic front, with inequality, [inaudible], high poverty rates and the problem of foreign debt. Do you think that the international community is doing enough to help?

SECRETARY POWELL: There’s always more we can do and have to find ways to do. The United States is trying to do everything we can to relieve the debt that is such a burden on many of the developing nations of our hemisphere. I mentioned our Millennium Challenge Account, which is going to provide significant resources to a number of countries in the hemisphere.

We also know that we have to bridge the difference that currently exists between those that are doing well in the society and those who are mired, trapped in poverty, in ignorance. And so, trade will do that. If you have good trade, if wealth is being created, that wealth will benefit people who created the wealth, but those people then turn around and create jobs: jobs for those further down the economic ladder to achieve and to get into, and jobs which will allow them to start moving up.

And so we have to work hard to create the proper conditions for economic growth in each of our countries. That is the only solution for poverty. Aid will not solve the poverty problems. Just talking about it will not solve poverty problems. Economic development, development assistance and trade and investment will solve poverty problems.

MR. MUNOZ: One more. What do you think about Ronald Reagan?

SECRETARY POWELL: I knew President Reagan very, very well. I served him as his National Security Advisor in the last few years of his Administration. I think he was a great man. I think he was a great American. I think he was a great leader of the world. As a result of his efforts, we saw the Cold War come to an end in Europe.

People forget sometimes all he did for the Western Hemisphere, for his own neighborhood: the Caribbean Basin Initiative, his stand against communism in this region benefited many countries, Grenada is free as a result of what President Reagan did.

So I think he was a man who gave optimism to the world. He always had a smile on his face. He always believed in democracy and the free enterprise system. And when you see what has happened over the last twenty years in our hemisphere, how so many other nations now believe and their leaders believe in democracy and free enterprise system. That is part of the legacy of Ronald Reagan, a great man.

MR. MUNOZ: Thank you.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you. Thank you very much.
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