For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
February 18, 2004
Interview of the President by Mouafac Harb of Middle East Television Network
The Map Room
January 29, 2004
10:02 A.M. EST
Q Mr. President, thank you very much for supporting our channel
and our initiative. We will make sure on our channel your policy, the
point of view of your administration, will always be presented clearly
and in fair context. However, we will make sure -- we want to be a
model for the free press, the American tradition -- other point of
views, relevant ones, will always be there, even if they are critical
of you.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I understand that. I hope so. First of all,
I appreciate your willingness to allow the people in the Middle East to
hear my views. My views are one that speaks to freedom. I believe the
Almighty God's gift to every person in the world is freedom. And I
work for free societies because I believe in people.
I want people to know that I respect religion. I'm a religious
man, myself. I respect the religion of other people, as well. I
believe we pray to the same Almighty God. I want people to know that
I believe in peace. I want there to be peace. I also want people to
know that it's very important for us to work together to fight terror,
to fight those who would be willing to kill innocent lives in order to
foster their own personal agendas.
I appreciate that. I also don't mind people expressing opinions
other than mine. I expect that to happen. It happens here in America,
and I expect it to happen around the world.
Q You may be the only world leader today, and maybe the first
American President, to pay a lot of attention to freedom and democracy
in the Middle East. Why is that? Are you so committed to that?
THE PRESIDENT: I am very committed to freedom and democracy in the
Middle East. I believe people can self-govern around the world. Now,
there are some, admittedly, say, well, they can't have freedom and
democracy in the Middle East. But I think that point of view is
condescending. I think it diminishes the hopes and aspirations of the
citizenry of the Middle East. I absolutely believe in freedom and
peace. And I look forward to working with governments to achieve
freedom and peace.
Now, I recognize not every government is going to fashion a free
society in the vision of America. I don't expect that. But I do
expect every government to uphold the aspirations of the average
citizens in a free society.
Q You mentioned in the State of the Union address that you
would be doubling the budget for the National Endowment of Democracy
towards the Middle East. What's your vision? How are you trying to
accomplish that?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think we need to work with governments and
institutions and NGOs to encourage the institutions of a free society.
See, one of the interesting things in the Oval Office -- I love to
bring people into the Oval Office -- right around the corner from here
-- and say, this is where I office, but I want you to know the office
is always bigger than the person. In other words, free societies are
societies where people come and go, but the institutions that protect
the rights of people never leave. And that's what the institute is
going to be working on -- free press, just like we just talked about,
free elections, free society.
Q You said you would be working with governments in the Middle
East.
THE PRESIDENT: Sure.
Q And you know the type of governments that now exist in the
Middle East, and for how long the U.S. has been accused of playing ball
with governments that people hate. When you say you want this
strategy, forward strategy of freedom, are you saying you're going to
be abandoning the monarchies and, you know, those guys?
THE PRESIDENT: No, of course not. I know them well. First of
all, many of the countries in the Middle East are modernizing. And
that's what I look for. I fully understand it takes time for free
societies, truly free societies to evolve. I don't expect instant
success. After all, in my own country it took a while for our current
system to evolve.
Take Saudi Arabia, for example -- first of all, I respect Crown
Prince Abdallah, and like Crown Prince Abdallah. He's a man of great
faith, and great integrity, who gave a speech the other day about the
need to modernize and to reform Saudi society. I take him for his
word. To me that was a positive development.
King Abdullah of Jordan, the King of Morocco, I mean, there's a
series of places -- Qatar, Oman -- I mean, places that are developing
-- Bahrain -- they're all developing the habits of free societies.
They evolve differently. But nevertheless, progress is being made.
And for that, I'm very grateful.
Q When you sit down with the leaders of the countries you just
mentioned, Mr. President, do you get a sense of the urgency, when we
talk about the issues of reform and democracy, from them?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I get a sense of two things from them. One, I
do believe they understand the need to reform. But I also know they
agree that we need to continue to work together to fight terror. And
that's vital, because it's hard for a free society to develop with
terrorists killing innocent people.
For example, I have a vision in the Middle East for there to be a
Palestinian state. I'm the first President to have ever articulated a
Palestinian state. I believe there needs to be a Palestinian state,
and I'm not going to change my opinion. On the other hand, I know how
hard it is to achieve a Palestinian state, so long as there's groups of
terrorists willing to murder in order to prevent that from happening.
And so I hear two things. I hear, one, the need to reform, to
include more people in the process, which is taking place; but also the
clear understanding from leaders that we must continue to work together
to fight off the terrorists. And I say this with conviction. There's
a -- the murderous ambitions of a few are trying to derail the hopes of
many. And my government wants to work with governments to prevent that
from happening.
Q Has the road map failed? Do we need a new approach to revive
the peace talks and work towards your vision?
THE PRESIDENT: No, not at all, no. The road map is in place.
What has failed is the -- some parties are not advancing on the road
map. They're stuck. And I stood up with Mr. Abu Mazen, at that time
the Prime Minister of the Palestinian Authority, with Prime Minister
Sharon, in Aqaba, Jordan -- and King Abdullah, of course, our host --
and we linked arms and said, let us move forward on the road map to
peace. There needs to be a commitment to fight terror. There needs to
be a commitment to put the institutions of a free society in place.
There needs to be a commitment on the Israelis to worry about the
plight of the average Palestinian citizen -- to encourage a society to
evolve that is commercially viable and free. There needs to be a
commitment from the neighborhood to help fight off the flow of funds to
fund the terrorist groups, that would stop.
And we were making progress, we really were. And then he got
shoved aside. And so the road map is still intact. The vision for
where we need to go is intact. What we need right now are parties who
are willing to take a risk for peace, and to lead. And I look forward
to working with any such party.
Q Why then are some people in the U.S. or some of your friends
and allies in the Middle East say that you're not personally doing
enough? How would you respond to that?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I would remind them of the pictures of
Aqaba, Jordan. I mean, it's -- it is a rare occurrence when the
President stands up with Israel, the Palestinian Authority, and says
we're linked together to move toward peace. The problem was, was that
somebody undermined that peace process by making it very difficult for
Prime Minister Abu Mazen to work to achieve his vision. And that
somebody was Chairman Arafat. I'm sorry that happened. On the other
hand, I still believe that a Palestinian state is essential for the
aspirations of the Palestinian people. And I fully understand there
needs to be a firm commitment to fight off terror in order for that to
happen.
Q On the issue of Iraq, how do you see the transition of
sovereignty to the Iraqis?
THE PRESIDENT: Moving. I mean, if you really take a step back,
we're here in February of 2004, and the Iraqi people weren't really
liberated until April of 2003. We haven't been there a year. And yet,
there's tremendous progress being made. The first thing I pay
attention to -- there are voices speaking out about how to achieve
democracy. Had those voices spoken out last year, or the year before,
or the year before, they probably wouldn't be a voice anymore, given
the fact that Saddam Hussein was willing to torture and kill
dissidents.
And today a free society is emerging. And it may look bumpy at
times, but democracy sometimes looks bumpy. I mean, here in our own
country I'm sure people take a step back and say, what is happening in
the election process? I mean, it looks like there are some sharp
elbows. But I am encouraged by what is taking place in Iraq. I
appreciate so very much the fact that the Shiias speak out for
freedom. I appreciate the fact that the Sunnis are questioning whether
or not they have a role in the future of their country. I appreciate
the fact that the Kurds are active. I appreciate the fact that all
three parties are trying to work for a common law that guarantees the
religious rights of others, the minority rights of people in a free
society.
So I think it's very positive. We look forward to working with the
United Nations to help the process along, to add some international
legitimacy to what the Iraqis think is necessary to move the process
toward a new constitution and elections of people.
Q From the outside it looked like the Grand Aytollah in Iraq,
he's a religious man, he's calling for immediate elections and we're
kind of hesitant to do it right now. What's your reaction to that?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, that's very interesting. No, I understanding
completely. First of all, I admire the fact that he is confident
enough in democracy to call for elections. I mean, after all, America
believes in elections. I think the only hesitancy from the experts is
whether or not the process is ready to absorb direct elections. And we
want to work with Mr. Sistani, the Aytollah. He's a wise man. He's a
distinguished gentleman who cares deeply about the Iraqi people. And
I'm confident we can work toward a solution that is in Iraq's interest,
and at the same time, addresses his deep desire to have the people of
Iraq participate in the process.
I think the fact that he's willing to be involved is a very
positive development. It shows people care about the future of Iraq.
We just must all work together to come up with an Iraqi solution as to
how best to get a constitution written and then direct elections. The
first step, of course, is a general law, and then a temporary assembly
of some kind to help -- so we can hand over sovereignty. And then the
process moves forward.
Q If we can move towards Syria.
THE PRESIDENT: Sure.
Q You had a couple of phone calls with the Syrian President
after September 11 and things looked, you know, that the President of
Syria was going in the right direction, according to your
administration. And then things went sour. What happened?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, I think we made some legitimate
requests. I said, look, Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. They
headquartered in your country. You need to shut down those
headquarters. You need to prevent terrorist activities from being
planned and/or orders being -- emanating out of Syria. Secondly,
you've got to work on the border to make sure that the border between
Iraq and Syria is not porous but, in fact, you are able to stop the
flow of people and contraband and information back and forth. We don't
want terrorists coming in from Syria into Iraq to kill innocent Iraqis
and/or American troops. And it's very important for us to keep sending
that message to him. That's why I appreciate doing this interview.
The message still stands. And we would hope there would be a strong
cooperation on these very reasonable points.
Q The Syrian President sent a couple of signals recently
expressing his willingness to resume peace talks with Israel. Would
you be willing -- how do you assess this --
THE PRESIDENT: It's very interesting. First of all, I'm
interested in peace. And the fact that a party is willing to talk
about peace is, I think, a positive signal. I look forward to
understanding fully what that means. As you know, there was -- some
progress had been made prior to my arrival as President on
Syrian-Israeli peace talks. And we've just got to understand the
intent, the sincerity and the desire of both parties involved, that
would be Syria and Israel.
Q Libya.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
Q Although some people, maybe in Washington, and you may
consider what happened with Libya as a success for diplomacy, but it
did not sit well with the Libyans. It looks like it contradicts this
forward strategy of freedom.
THE PRESIDENT: How do you mean it didn't sit well with them? It
sat well with Colonel Qadhafi because he made the decision.
Q But in terms of democracy, I mean, you know, Qadhafi is a
dictator --
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, whether or not democracy then follows -- I
see. Well, we hope it does, of course, and we look forward to working
with him. But first things first. We had no relationship with Libya.
And now the relationship can improve because he has made a very wise
decision to disclose programs and dismantle those programs. To me,
it's a signal that Colonel Qadhafi is interested in a peaceful -- is
interested in peace and a resumption of relations with a country like
the United States. And that will begin to change the relationship.
Right now we want to make sure that we all fulfill our
obligations. And a key obligation is for the United States and Great
Britain and the IAEA to work with the Libyans to fully disclose and
dismantle in a transparent way weapons programs.
Q Would it be safe to say that the United States would not
fully normalize with Libya unless the human rights record of the Libyan
government were to improve --
THE PRESIDENT: Well, obviously, there's a lot of conditionality in
any relationship. We do want to improve relationships with Libya, but
the first thing -- the first step, of course, is for the Colonel to
fulfill his commitment to the entire world, and that is to disclose and
dismantle. And then the relationship will evolve.
Q On the issue of weapons of mass destruction -- Iran.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
Q Libya is a case where diplomacy worked. Iraq is a place
where --
THE PRESIDENT: Diplomacy didn't work.
Q -- didn't work.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, it didn't work. It was tried for 12 years
and it didn't work. And the world continually said disarm, and he
didn't do it. And finally, I went to the United Nations and said to
the United Nations, for your sake and for our sake -- you, the United
Nations' sake -- for our sake, America, and for the world's sake, let
us enforce these resolutions.
Q So we've got the Libyan model and we've got the Iraqi model.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
Q Which one would fit Iran today?
THE PRESIDENT: All models must start with a strong effort by the
world community to convince people to abandon -- in this case, abandon
programs, nuclear weapons programs. And we certainly hope the Iranian
situation can be resolved diplomatically. I appreciate very much the
fact that members of the European Community have spoken with one voice
about the need for Iraq to fully disclose and disarm its weapons
programs. And IAEA is very much involved.
So, in other words, we're now early in the stage, obviously, and
it's a stage where I'm hopeful that diplomacy will work.
Q You mentioned the international community. Are you satisfied
with the way the international community is reacting towards the
rebuilding of Iraq?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I really am. I mean, gosh, there's a lot of
countries that are very much involved in Iraq. The other night in the
State of the Union I began to read off the list. And the longer the
list got, the more the American people begin to realize this is a truly
internationalized effort. And people are contributing money. I mean,
I was talking about forces on the ground and the level of contributions
are very generous -- starting with the United States, I might add. And
I'm most proud of the Congress for being willing to help rebuild Iraq,
because they understand, like I understand, that a free Iraq is going
to be an agent of change in a positive way in the Middle East.
Again, I want to go back to where we began. See, if you didn't
believe certain countries in the Middle East could be free, then you
wouldn't be worried about rebuilding of a country. But I believe they
can be free. And I know free societies are peaceful societies. And I
believe in the Iraqi people, of all walks of life, and I believe that
they're going to show the world what is possible.
After all, the Iraqi people have such a -- Iraqi history is so
rich. The culture of Iraq is fantastic. And it's -- I have visions of
a university system that really leads the Middle East in education and
on the forefront of science and engineering -- because I know the
Iraqi-Americans who are here, very bright, capable, honorable people
who have come to our country, realized the benefits of freedom, taken
advantage of some fantastic opportunities and made great citizens.
Well, the same thing is going to happen in Iraq. And that will
cause others to say well, gosh, if it's happening in Iraq, let's follow
that model of a free society. And the American Congress understands
that; I understand that; and a lot of people around the world
understand it. And I am grateful for the contributions that people are
willing to make for the reconstruction of Iraq.
Q Are you concerned that Iraq's neighbors may work to undermine
the democracy because it doesn't suit the region?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, it's an interesting question. I certainly
hope not. But if -- look, one of the neighbors to Iraq is Turkey. And
they withstood any pressure, if there was any pressure, to undermine
the development of a free and secular society. They still maintain its
respect for Islam.
Pakistan is another country which is evolving, showing what is
possible in terms of a free society, and an active Parliament, and at
the same time, honoring Islam.
No, I think a truly free society will resist foreign efforts to
undermine the development of that society.
Q Mr. President, this is an election year for you.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
Q If, hypothetically, people in the Middle East could vote,
would the next four years be -- if you were to be elected -- would be
good for them?
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, absolutely.
Q Why would they vote for you?
THE PRESIDENT: Absolutely. Well, they'd vote for me because I am
strong on the war on terror, for starters. I refuse to relent to
terrorist groups. There's no negotiation with these people. These are
people that are willing to kill people who are devout, religious
people, and not care about it. They kill innocent women and children
and not care about it. More Muslims have died at the hands of killers
than -- I say more Muslims -- a lot of Muslims have died -- I don't
know the exact count -- at Istanbul. Look at these different places
around the world where there's been tremendous death and destruction
because killers kill.
They would appreciate George W. in the future because I understand
that freedom and prosperity go hand in hand. And a free society is
more likely to be a prosperous society where people can realize their
hopes and aspirations.
Listen, I'm a dad. I love my girls more than anything in life, our
daughters. I know that other dads feel the same way about their
children, and all they want is for their children to have a chance to
succeed, to grow up in a peaceful society, to be well-educated and to
realize their God-given potential. I share that dream.
I think the people of the Middle East will see that the Bush
administration is unrelenting when it comes to dealing with the few who
want to hurt the many, but, at the same time, believes in the people of
the Middle East, believes in their hopes and aspirations.
Q Thank you very much, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, sir.
END 10:22 A.M. EST
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